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Igvy



Joined: Apr 29, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 07, 2013 - 01:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Personally I'm not much of a fan of any of the advice listed so far. But most people play them differently.

The number of gutters:
As a general rule of thumb you want only 2 gutters on an 11 man team, as you get an extra man you can take another gutter. Positioning wise it gets a lot harder to hold/control the pitch otherwise.
This rule is more of a guideline used by coaches that want higher win ratios.

Charging in, like you are playing elves, is noob scaven play (IMO). You can have a lot of great success if you get the dice, more so if you have lots of gutters. The minute the dice fail, you lose all your players.

Playing scaven is more about not giving blocks than any other team. What does this mean? Keep many of your players behind a screen, keep 2 space gaps between them, make it hard for everyone to end up in TZ at the start of your next turn.
Use screens instead of marking players.

You can score fast - but scoring slow is hard. What does this mean? Find any way you can to stall your offensive, you will find this very hard to do while trying not to give blocks.
Defensively, you don't have to do much. Even if they score T6 you will easily counter score. Just stop them from stalling too long.
Personally I'd advise against charging in for a steal especially on the first half. You will give a lot of blocks and probably achieve nothing; Instead use positioning to push him into a really weak spot then strike.
Some golden advice I was told about scaven defense: "Scaven fight away from the ball" - I take that to mean ignore a well defended ball and pick at the players you want to take out.

Rat Ogers are good when you first start, as you need the power. However it is rare that a player can make the second one worth it. Don't fall in the trap of constantly blitzing with him, he has other uses.

My final piece of advice is to take everything said above with a pinch of salt, there are a lot better scaven coaches out there. Hopefully some will post.
albinv



Joined: Sep 15, 2012

Post   Posted: Dec 07, 2013 - 01:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, this looks a lot better now! Smile

I agree with having a good banter about this all and fighting out which is the most pansiest race of them all but if there is real interest expressed, i think we should be able to drop it for awhile. And there obviously is and always was.
We might all remind us of the fact Skaven are really one of the classic and oldest teams and it also hasn't changed much at all over the years, and obviously worked under every ruleset without a flaw (you could alwayz killz them so eazy!). ^^

@Garion
I have adviced beginners more than once to plasmoids playbooks they're among the best, the skaven one is for sure imho, and i do thank you its available to all of us!
Where it lacks, imho, is quantity and detail (just like most others).
Many Beginners dont have a real perception of a rather abstract tactical description, and what makes you learn things, is a practical idea of a given topic.
So i can only see positive results attempting to provide them and to add on what is already available.
I also second what Smeat said. Just recently i had two fellow novice coaches asking advice for Skaven, one already coaching a team but struggling (not so much with his other teams!), one planning to start one.
Also with Fumbbl Cup coming down to 2 Skaven teams as mentioned, this might make it even more worthwhile and rewarding for newbies spectating the FC.
Maybe this could become a real good reference at our fingertips.
Honestly, i can only see us improving with the Plasmoid creator taking part and so much good input already given!


Last edited by albinv on Dec 07, 2013 - 08:44; edited 5 times in total
Jeffro



Joined: Jan 22, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 07, 2013 - 03:30 Reply with quote Back to top

MisterFurious wrote:
1. Give the first Linerat that skills up Kick. Try your best to keep him alive.

2. Your Linerats that don't have Kick or some stat boost are expendable. Don't think twice about throwing them under the bus to help the team. They'll die in droves, but that's what they're there for.

3. Learn how to chain push a Gutter Runner. There's a guide in the Help section.

4. Don't forget to score touchdowns with your Blitzers. They really need SPP's and can score touchdowns pretty easily with 7 MV and 3 AG, but it's easy to forget that and score with your Gutter Runners all the time.

5. Protect your Blitzers more than anyone else. Even though Gutter Runners are your best players and the core of the team, they skill up quickly so it's not the end of the world if one dies or gets retired. Blizters on the other hand, will skill up much slower and they need skills to be really good. Don't let them get hit if you can help it. Protect your Gutter Runners, too, but make them second priority after your Blitzers.

6. Just because you can score in one or two turns, doesn't mean you always should. Think twice before crossing the end zone early on. After you score, you'll be kicking off and taking a beating. It might be best to stall.

7. When kicking off, set up to take advantage of a Blitz! if it comes up. If you turn a Blitz! into a touchdown, you've probably won the game. (I blitzed a guy four times in one game with a Skaven team. I almost felt bad about it. Almost.)

8. Rat Ogres really aren't worth it. They boost your TV too much for what they do. Getting inducements like a Wizard or Babes or a Star Player will usually help you out more than an AV 8 Wild Animal that will spend most of his time roaring in rage or laying in your KO or Injury box. You can take one if you really want one, as they aren't truly awful and they can sometimes do some damage, but most of the time they are ineffective for their cost. If you do want to take one, take it early (don't start with it) and use it until it gets hurt or dies and don't replace it. The higher up in TV you go, the more effective the bashy teams will be and with skills like Guard and Mighty Blow all over the place, taking out an AV 8 guy, even one with 5 ST, isn't going to be hard. That'll be a LOT of TV laying in your Injury box. You can have three Linerats for the same price.

9. Start with 4 Gutter Runners, 2 Blitzers, 1 Thrower, 4 Linerats, 3 Rerolls (probably all you'll ever need), and an Apothecary. Skaven have one of the easiest and best starting line ups of any team. Don't start with a Rat Ogre. Your team won't be developed enough to compensate for it's stupidity and unreliability. Skaven win lots of games and get lots of money, so you should have enough for a Rat Ogre pretty quickly if you want one, particularly since you have all of your positionals, rerolls, and an Apothecary right from the get go.

10. Accept the fact that every once in a while you are going to have a bad game were your entire team is blasted off the pitch in the first half. It's going to happen and there's nothing you can do about it but suck it up and soldier on to the next game. Skaven can usually recover from a horrible game and not get stuck in that Death Spiral were one bad games leads to another and then another and then another until you have to retire like Elves will sometimes get stuck in. Skaven are cheap and all you need are some Gutter Runners to win.

11. Don't feel bad when you do a One Turn Touchdown and win a game that you really shouldn't have. That's just what Skaven do. Some teams win by smashing the other team off the pitch. Some teams win by doing the 2-1 Grind. Some teams win by scoring lots of touchdowns. Your opponents will probably whine and complain about it, but, hey, it's up to them to do what they can to stop it. Do those Orc, Chaos, or Dwarf players feel bad when they kill half your team? Nope. Why should you feel bad for doing what your team was designed to do?

12. Don't get foul happy with them. With cheap Linerats and just by the simple fact that the team is made up of dirty rats, it may seem like Skaven are a great Fouling team, but the reality is that you're more often than not going to be down on players and you usually can't afford to have Linerats getting banned. Foul surgically and hit juicy targets. If you find yourself up in players later in the game, you can loosen up and give the boot more often, but early in the game, just foul key players of the opponent's team. Foul with the assumption that that Linerat is going to get banned and the guy you're booting is only going to get stunned and consider if that's worth the risk.

13. The bigger your bench, the better...up to a point. Your Linerats will get hurt during the game and having replacements is great. If you can run 14 guys on your team and not suffer the effects of high TV, then do it. If you can run 15 comfortably, then do it. I ran a 15 man team for a while on another site and it was fantastic. I was usually able to field 11 players in the second half. The problem, though, is that your TV gets high and you will get Spiraling Expenses and you may also not be getting the Inducements that you could get if you had a 13 man squad. Early on, keep hiring guys until you get up to 14 or 15 and then run that until you start feeling the effects. If you start feeling the effects of Spiraling Expenses and it's hurting your treasury, cut a guy. If you find yourself thinking 'I ALMOST had enough for a Wizard' a lot, cut a guy. Until then, run 14 or 15. Always keep a spot or two open for Star Players. Skaven have one of the best selection of Star Players to choose from, plus they're expendable players that you can throw in harm's way and not care if they die.

14. A lot of people think that Throwers aren't needed, but Throwers are Linerats with Sure Hands, Passing, and Passing Skill access for 20k more. That's really good value and makes it worth taking at least one. A Thrower with Leader is 20k less TV than a Team Reroll would cost you. They have Sure Hands which helps against teams with Strip Ball. They're some of the best Throwers in the game as well, having 7 MV and Pass and Sure Hands. No, you don't NEED a Thrower, but it does add some value to your team, value that's worth the 20k extra.

15. Three Team Rerolls is probably all you'll need. If you need another, take Leader on a Thrower and save 20k. Skaven can coast on fewer Rerolls than other teams because Skaven don't make as many rolls as most other teams and usually have built in Rerolls for when they do. Bashy teams throw lots of Block Dice and the more Block Dice you throw, the more likely Skulls are going to come up, which means a Reroll will be used. Bashy teams will also find themselves doing lots of GFI's. Elf teams and Stunty teams will do lots of dodges and Elves can do a lot of pick ups and passes, too, often with guys that don't have Pass, Catch, or Sure Hands. The Elves have AG 4, but 1's do happen and most Elves don't have Dodge and few have Pass or Catch. That means Rerolls. Stunty's dodge a lot and have Dodge, but they're usually only AG 3. The Skaven team doesn't block as much as a bashy team and won't be dodging as much as an Elf team and most dodging will be done by Gutter Runners that are AG 4 and have Dodge. They also don't need to GFI as much as other teams. That all means less dice rolled and the less dice rolled, the less likely you'll need a Reroll.


I just wanted to quote someone that wrote more than the Smeathead Smile
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 07, 2013 - 03:40 Reply with quote Back to top

easy mode

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albinv



Joined: Sep 15, 2012

Post   Posted: Dec 07, 2013 - 03:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Laughing I will post something just around the same length.

I reckon its quite long, but taking into account its here at our fingertips serving as a possible future reference, and you wont read it one after another, but isolated, once its done - then it isnt that long at all actually.
Just like a reference sheet. I also reckon it took quite some effort to put it down.
I appreciate it MrFurious and i guess im not the only one, its a bookmark already.


Last edited by albinv on Dec 07, 2013 - 08:17; edited 3 times in total
albinv



Joined: Sep 15, 2012

Post   Posted: Dec 07, 2013 - 06:24 Reply with quote Back to top

More Cheesy Skaven Styles As Long And Nasty As A Rat's Tail:

In the following i try to give a little more detailed picture on what, for the most part probably, is already described in various guides as abstract short rules of thumb.
It has to be said i hacked it in rather quickly and im no native english speaker also it is very late by now, so it isn't structured very well and all.
I shell have revised it by tomorrow and hopefully put it into a cleaner and more appealing form, so please bear with me here.
However, i hope and think its still useful to us interested in Skaven:


@Mister Furious

A lot of great input collected there, if not all new, this is great as a compressed reference imho and i think everyone interested in Skaven should be thankful to find this! I surely am.

Also, i do think some of the points mentioned (4-6), are already touching the area where things can get indeed more complicated for us Skaven coaches.
Imho it lies mainly in the fact that Skaven can also (and sometimes even have to!) "bash" to some degree instead of just running and scoring! And that it can be very challenging deciding on the when and how of that.

It should be clear (by now) that you just cant always get away with running and scoring just because you are "supermutant-dangermouse" which can only be stopped from scoring when rolling bad or something (AV7 alone would be enough for any honest coach to admit that).

Well, so it has already been mentioned in more than one guide that Skaven share a lot with woodies...
(so, btw, you are allowed to keep some of that cheese for yourself mr. pointy-ears Wink )

What in essence sets them apart on the positive side is then: the ability to have 2 (spelled out: two that is, not anymore) Beastman-like blitzers which, developed, can dish out a real punch!
On the negative there's no AG4 lineman who will be a useful thread or can skill up reasonable. Instead theres an AV7 lino who cant dodge hits well, or do anything much to compensate for it!

So "bashing" (not an adequate term for Skaven btw, we'll find a better definition in the following) with Skaven can feel a bit like running on the edge of a cliff. At any point things might tip over with a vengeance!


Lets try to give a rough picture of some of the situations that might force a Skaven coach to still vote for that decision and make it work.
And why, what may sound simple, can in reality be quite complicated and confusing.

- having to face a bunch of real bad boys in the hand of a good coach going for the 1:2 grind! As mentioned by Mr. Furious. How will you do that without getting killed?
- playing a good coach who plays a superb positioning game can, imho, stop any race from running far!
- elfes. theres a fair chance for situations where outscoring them seems hard or not desirable. They might try to do just the opposite of the 1:2 grind to you, for instance. Also remember again, as mentioned, they have that AG4 all over the roster where you only have about 4 the most!
Will you (have to) take your chance to maul them? Elfes are dodgy and evil wrongdoers, wanting to outscore you while having a laugh in your face, we all know that very well.
And you don't pack the punch of Orcs (for example).
Remember, just like mentioned before, you only have two of those mean Vermins to accomplish that (+ maybe enough linefodder to foul), what if they fall apart half-way during your bash attempt? That should leave you in a real weak position vs. Elfes.
You're stripped from your only advantage now (again compare) - see that Elf dodging for the TD now while kicking your teeth in like a sir (laughing of course)?

Im sure, if being honest with each other, we can think of more situations comparable. BloodBowl is complex enough for that i think.
I hope i could detail only a few of them and give just a rough idea what they can mean on the pitch for a coach being pressed to make decisions quick!


In Plasmoids Playbook i think it says knowing WHEN and HOW to take those risky chances is the key to a Skaven team!
And i think that is a well observed and worded meta-rule/ rule of thumb, around which a lot of the Skaven plays and tactics revolve!

HOW: I think "bashing" with Skaven could best be described as hitting with a surgical-demolition-hammer, hit real hard and hit witty! And when you hit, do it quick and with true determination! Once the decision is made and you hesitate or being too slow or setting up something wrong here - you may find yourself dead or defeated just as quick as you should have been!
Surgical, of course refers to taking out the key players in that given match.

WHEN: You might simply feel being forced to do so in the big plan of things - see above. It might require you to take dodges, go for blitzes, pick ups you wouldn't do with any other race! Think outside the box, but stay on your feet!

All in all, in those hard challenging matches and situations, to do just that - i say it requires just the same good eye for opportunities/ positions as it does with other races! Maybe even a bit more from time to time, as there are more options available to you on the board, some of which you are not even used to notice!

This might feel like heavy multitasking sometimes compared to different races. This can be stressful and confusing for beginners as for experienced coaches in hard matches. From my perspective it is your task redirecting all that pressure and to put it right onto your opponents shoulders! Dont forget your MA helping you to do just that!

Where a lot races feel like a tank, Skaven can feel like a combat-jet. To give another picture.

I hope this makes some sense to you fellow mouseballers and i hope experienced coaches keep on adding! Smile
MisterFurious



Joined: Aug 11, 2010

Post   Posted: Dec 07, 2013 - 09:48 Reply with quote Back to top

"How will you do that without getting killed? "

You don't. Your boys are going to die. That's just how it goes. The trick is to make sure it's your Linerats that are dying and not your Gutter Runners or Blitzers. Your Gutter Runners are there to handle the ball. Your Blitzers are there to punch holes for your Gutter Runners. Your Linerats are there to get in the way and protect your Gutter Runners by becoming road blocks. They're there to take one for the team, to jump on that hand grenade and save everyone else. With Skaven, it's the team that matters, not the individual. Really, not even the Gutter Runners matter more than the team. They're the most important players, for sure, but there's going to be times when you need to throw one to the wolves so that another one can get the score. Winning the game is the most important thing. Not skilling up your guys or keeping anyone alive. Do what you've got to do to win the game. They're all expendable. The poor Linerats are unfortunately more expendable than the others, so more often than not, they're the ones getting rolled over, but that's their job.

What I said about scoring, I didn't mean that you should always stall and go for the 2:1 grind. What I meant was, sometimes that's what you should do and sometimes you should score. You just need to analyze the situation and determine what's best. A lot of Skaven and Elf coaches don't do that, though. They see an opportunity to score and they take it, but that's not always best option. The sooner you score in a half, the more time your opponent has to score and the more time they have to beat on your team. I've seen a lot of guys do a One Turn Touchdown on the first turn of a game and that is almost never a good idea. For one thing, what happens if you fail a GFI? You've given the ball to your opponent and probably just lost your One Turner to a boot to the face on the first turn of the game. Even if you do score, you're kicking to your opponent who's going to have eight full turns to smash your team's heads in and score. Now, say you hold off until turn four or five to score. Your opponent now only has three or four turns to score. That's more pressure on them. Skaven need to always be applying pressure to their opponents. Skaven and Wood Elves are the two best teams at capitalizing on an opponents mistake/misfortune. No other teams are better at turning a dropped ball into a touchdown. You always want to pressure your opponent and try and make them do risky things like pass the ball or do a crazy dodge. Each turn that ticks by adds pressure to your opponent to score. If you can block up their cage or their ball handler, eventually, they'll have to do something risky and more often than not, they'll fail and then you capitalize by snatching the loose ball up and getting it to a Gutter Runner to run it in and score.

As far as One Turning goes, it's something you do when you have to, not just because you can. Under the best of circumstances, you're making three GFI's and in most cases, you've got to make several dodges, too. They don't always work and it's often disastrous when they don't. When it's Turn 8 in a half, the risk is worth the reward, but on any other turn, it's most likely not.

If your winning the game by one and you manage to get the ball often it's best to score and secure victory, but sometimes it's best to run away with the ball and hold it for as long as you can. It really depends on your opponent. How slow they are. How many of your guys are out. How many of their guys are out. What turn it is. What half it is. What guys are getting hit. How will your opponent react is something else to consider. Some times getting up by two points will not only secure victory but you'll more often than not demoralize your opponent which will usually make them play sloppy and result in more scoring for you. I know I play like crap when I feel like I'm beat and it's all hopeless. Morale is a major part of the game that doesn't get talked about much, but it's a really huge factor. Skaven and Wood Elves can really demoralize an opponent by scoring a lot, which is why they're hated so much. Super bashy teams can do the same by killing half your team early in the game, too. It has a big effect. When someone feels it's hopeless, they give up and make the game easier for you. Still, there are other times when you're ahead and you can just keep the ball in your half for a while and secure the win that way. Scoring gives your opponent a chance to score back and also bash at least three guys on your LOS. You've got to weigh all the factors and determine what's best. To Score or Not To Score? That is the question you need to ask yourself when you've got the ball. The answer isn't always "Score". It can be, but not always. Sometimes it's best to run up to a corner and thumb your nose at your opponent and hold the ball for as long as you can. Sometimes they won't even go after it. They'll get mad and try and kill your team while you run the clock down. If that means losing some Linerats, then so what? As long as you win the game, then it's worth it. You'll win enough gold to replace a rat or two, but that 'W' will always be on your record.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 07, 2013 - 09:49 Reply with quote Back to top

Smeat wrote:

Garion wrote:
All those questions are answered in the book. Smile

Um... no, actually, not specifically they're not.


1) Rogre or Nogre?

You say this is personal pref - mmm... okay. But you don't mention higher/lower TV's, or skills that help him. Any insight that "experience" brings, and might share?


b) what's the 4th build?

You list a OTS BUT in the same breath say you would not go out of your way to build it. So w/o +MA, #4 is... generic, wait and see?


b.1) How do you (best) "protect" a man-marker?

Generally, perhaps, but again not specifically. His job is to mark a key player (hopefully w/ an additional assist or three), but that's still asking for a block or blitz...



again these are all answered in the book-

1) I say on numerous occasions that I dont ever bother with a rat ogre for a number of reasons. So I thought that was pretty obvious, just dont bother.

b) the 4th build is the one turn specialist in the book. The point is that I still blodge him up before going for SF and sprint because I like to use him at other times. But with Skaven your Gutter runners are really determined by the stats they get.

b1) Thats just too situational a question. when you apply this pressure to cages and put this type of player in harms way all comes from experience really. To describe exactly when to use your man marker or not is really impossible as there are too many variables.

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the_Sage



Joined: Jan 13, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 07, 2013 - 11:31 Reply with quote Back to top

licker wrote:
Skaven?

CPOMB 2x Blitzer
MA10 sprint 1x gutter

Win!


While this is certainly very true, I'd say you can't go wrong adding:
-wrestle strip ball leap dauntless gutter (very long -legs, two heads, horns instead of dauntless)
-AG5 leap sure hands gutter (absolute gold, this one)
-block ss dt gutter

Bonus:
AG4 thrower
guard linos

And yes, I agree with Garion: while you may set out shaping your gutters (2 block, 2 wrestle), in the end their rolls will determine who does what.
albinv



Joined: Sep 15, 2012

Post   Posted: Dec 08, 2013 - 01:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Excellent and detailed posts by igvy and MisterFurious again imho!

Though its hard, and in some aspects, indeed impossible to get to all the variables, i still think though this is quite a good attempt so far.
May already be the most detailed Skaven guide that i've come across so far.

I, however, failed that mission this evening. Tried to put something down to get back to you guys and add some to it (really awesome post MisterFurious), but have to accept its too late and my lack of english skills is getting in my way. I hope i get around to it tomorrow.
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 08, 2013 - 01:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Let's shave skaven!

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licker



Joined: Jul 10, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 08, 2013 - 02:23 Reply with quote Back to top

I've got nothing against the walls of text being spewed forth, surely they contain some nuggets of wisdom which are useful.

Yet...

If you want a truly competitive skaven team there is only one thing that matters.

As many CPOMBers as you can manage.

Gutters are necessary, but almost irrelevant, they will skill so quickly and you can take horns/wrestly block/leap side step, it almost doesn't matter. MA9 AG4 Dodge is going to score like crazy. AG5 big hand becomes a great ball nabber, but meh, can't plan one of those. MA10 sprint becomes an unassisted one turner. Again, can't plan that. Simply taking SS as the 1st skill makes it fairly easy to one turn already.

The other tip is never bother with stats on your line rats, and don't bother with the RO unless you want one early on if you need to be competitive early on. Without a couple doubles (at least) they rapidly become a sink on the production of the team as you are going to have one or two killer blitzers to use, and the RO loses a lot of their value when you can't position them to take advantage of PT.

So in short.

CPOMB 2x Blitzer
Win!

The rest is nice and all, but doesn't have that much to do specifically with skaven honestly, it's advice for teams which want to stall by playing keep away rather than by caging and bashing.
cyric612



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 08, 2013 - 02:47 Reply with quote Back to top

quote licker
Yet...

If you want a truly competitive skaven team there is only one thing that matters.

As many CPOMBers as you can manage.



CPOMB 2x Blitzer
Win!
End quote


I gotta try this CPOMB thing out. I've had claw mb guys and even a mb po guy but still don't think i've managed to have a cpomber on a skaven team
cyric612



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 08, 2013 - 02:56 Reply with quote Back to top

There is a lot of good information here and i think skaven can be shaped to fit almost anyones playstyle. I think the most important thing is to try and keep your blitzers alive as their ability to take a player or two of the other team off the field is very important. It's much easier to play 7 on 9 then 7 on 11 when all your linerats are getting blasted off the field. Gutters are a dime a dozen and are very easy to skill it's worth protecting ones with plus ag. I think once you are playing tourney games and such that having a one turner isn't a bad thing as it can pull a tie or a win out of nowhere but i'm not one that believes that you should just score as quick as you can with the one turner and then take a beating on the los. Rat ogres for me I think you have to start with one and hope he skills up with doubles. I like to start a team with one and if just gets normal skills i'll use him on the los until he gets killed and I don't replace them. If you can skill one up early with some doubles you can have a pretty nasty blitzing machine (ie Sam Axe). I think the strength of skaven is that they have a bit of everything they can get mutations they have speed and agility and they have cheap line fodder to protect the positionals. I've never been a big piling on fan I know that the statistics all show how good it is but I just always seem to have bad luck with it on the few players i've had it on. On rat blitzers i'd rather have them up and able to use the mv 7 to get where i need them.
albinv



Joined: Sep 15, 2012

Post   Posted: Dec 08, 2013 - 04:20 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, if theres only one advice a beginner would take out of all this, it should be the part about Blitzers being the heart of the team and not GR (see MisterFurious second post to have even more deeply insights on this imho).

The reasons have been very well explained, and i can only second all of them.

licker
Quote:
If you want a truly competitive skaven team there is only one thing that matters.
As many CPOMBers as you can manage.
CPOMB = win

But that could be said about all races having access to CPOMB following that logic.
Also, there might be poeple who aren't interested in exploiting the game mechanics.

It could be argued though, if its an exploit here, since Skaven only really can have two of them and they actually need them to stand their own.
But since, overall, its the latest exploit, it might still leave a bad taste in the mouth for some people.

If you still find yourself in ClawPOMB country while reading this, valued Fumbbl noob, please make your own decision.

Also isnt it interesting that cyric612 for example seems to be doing rather good without (ranked #68 )?

cyric612
Quote:
On rat blitzers i'd rather have them up and able to use the mv 7 to get where i need them.


Im not too keen on building ClawPOMB'ers as well.
For a) stupid reasons, once called ethical reasons b) i also like to stay on my feet, not willing to compromise my speed advantage, so there's at least some reason to it. But maybe also a little bit of LRB4 trauma there. Laughing

Please, everyone, if anyhow possible, lets not make this another CPOMB discussion.
The opinions on CPOMB have been heared and valued for what they are i think (and nobody can argue vs. the efficiency of CPOMB, nor the splooshy sensation it can give), but please stay on topic which is: Skaven (if dirty or shaven).


Last edited by albinv on Dec 08, 2013 - 05:32; edited 1 time in total
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