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JimmyFantastic



Joined: Feb 06, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2013 - 15:31 Reply with quote Back to top

Please don't sidetrack the thread.

This is basically a non-nerf to MBPO and quite a big nerf of Claw/ClawMBPO.
I think a big nerf of PO is preferable.

(Edited by staff, please behave)

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Calcium



Joined: Apr 08, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2013 - 15:33 Reply with quote Back to top

bigGuy wrote:
I think best would be:

1)Claws does not stack
2) Piling On for armor only


Yep, that would be of great benefit to your Preferred Khemri teams.....
All the suggested skill tweaks will do is change the way the dedicated minmaxers play the game. Bring these rules in and watch a massive influx of Orc/Dwarf teams re-enter the box.

Sad times indeed, it seems that the minority of vocal pixel huggers have their own 'bloodless blackbox' coming.

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gamelsetlmatch



Joined: Mar 05, 2013

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2013 - 15:33 Reply with quote Back to top

there is a nerf to PO...FEND

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bigGuy



Joined: Sep 21, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2013 - 15:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Calcium wrote:

1)Claws does not stack
2) Piling On for armor only


Yep, that would be of great benefit to your Preferred Khemri teams.....[/quote]

Actually, only 1) help Khemries
2) Is a nerf for all PO users. Buff for team without easy PO access (elves)
The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2013 - 15:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, I think Big C has nailed it on the head with the 'easiest' and potentially effective proposal the first time. A simple toggle of two of the options already available in the client.

Claw dosn't stack. Perfect for the fluff. Squeeze with your illegal weapon or smash hard, not both. And giving AV8 teams a min AV7, vice an effective AV6 for every blitz will make a big difference in the mindless removal machine that now regins.

The PO rule? Nerfing PO is awsome, and it means EVERY team will be affected, which will be a good counter to the CLAWPOMB spam whiners about to complain.

If it is possible to alert ALL users to any changes somehow (in the 6 main languages) before their first Box game under the new system, I think that would be fair. (A one time pop-up before activation, and afterwards a pop-up upon Box team creation)

I am excited that Big C has even made this post. I want to throw donation money at him now just for starting a focused thread where specific, realistic changes can be discussed.

IF the new system is implemented, I donate a full set of FUMBBL dice to the first NEW team created that goes 15-0. Dwarves vs. ZONS! GO!GO!

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2013 - 15:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Calcium wrote:
bigGuy wrote:
I think best would be:

1)Claws does not stack
2) Piling On for armor only


Yep, that would be of great benefit to your Preferred Khemri teams.....
All the suggested skill tweaks will do is change the way the dedicated minmaxers play the game. Bring these rules in and watch a massive influx of Orc/Dwarf teams re-enter the box.

Sad times indeed, it seems that the minority of vocal pixel huggers have their own 'bloodless blackbox' coming.


Fair point but your claw will still take them down to AV7 which will still leave you MB+PO on the injury.

If it was down to me I'd throw you guys a bone by giving a fouler his +1 to armour back.

Either way, just considering it is well worth 'going gold' over IMO. Mr. Green

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Calcium



Joined: Apr 08, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2013 - 15:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Gotta be honest, I quite like the suggestions in Plasmoids NTBB ruleset - it would be great to playtest all the suggestions in it.

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Hitonagashi



Joined: Apr 09, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2013 - 15:51 Reply with quote Back to top

I like the claw doesn't stack option.

I wouldn't say there's too much of a problem with pure MB/PO, and I'm not sure about hammering all bash teams with it!

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Gartch



Joined: Sep 07, 2012

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2013 - 15:54 Reply with quote Back to top

First of all I want to say what does not ennoys me the most in current MM systems is the lack of diversity.

Christer wrote:
1. clawDoesNotStack (default: off) - Claw does not stack with other skills that modify armour rolls.

2. pilingOnInjuryOnly (default: off) - Piling On lets you re-roll injury-rolls only.


So I have concern regarding point 1:
I think people who now play bashing teams with access to claw:
Chaos, Nurgle, Chaos Dwarves, Chaos Pact,
will after the change play AV 9 bashing teams:
Orcs, Dwarves (+ in less mesure some other bashing teams like undead and necro)
Those teams are already among the teams the most played in MM environments. Crying or Very sad
So I'm afraid it becomes even more boring, facing mainly only 2 teams: Dwarves and Orcs. Crying or Very sad

So to sum up now I'm against the change because of 1.

PS: thank you for asking users opinion


Last edited by Gartch on Dec 15, 2013 - 15:56; edited 1 time in total
xnoelx



Joined: Jun 05, 2012

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2013 - 15:56 Reply with quote Back to top

I dislike the idea of introducing 'house rules'. I say no.

Whatever you do, there are going to be some people who don't like it though.

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bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2013 - 16:12 Reply with quote Back to top

I feel the game more interesting, and more strategic if positioning is more important that damage output.

I support the proposal, but I would also gladly see a nerf on MB+PO combo. (As long as Pomb is prevalent, then armor 7 teams wont be much more popular than they are now, as they see very small improvement compared to the current status.)

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Roland



Joined: May 12, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2013 - 16:16 Reply with quote Back to top

I vote 'yes'
Synn



Joined: Dec 13, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2013 - 16:21 Reply with quote Back to top

These are good changes Christer.

If I may...

I would also like to see the fouling buff (additional +1 for av roll by fouler). Here is why:

It does provide a slight buff to damage output which can help make up for the slight decrease caused by PO nerf. Also, DP is a skill that all teams (except stuntes) have access to. It is a democratic means of murder and protection in this game.

Finally, having seen it briefly in a league setting, the fouling buff doesn't have too much of an in game impact because it doesn't address the pretty high chance of getting tossed out in CRP.

Right now an elf team that draws a team made of tackle/MB/PO blitzes has the open of lube or dry. Turning up fouling wouldn't hurt the enjoyment aspect.

__Synn
Anzelak



Joined: Nov 26, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2013 - 16:28 Reply with quote Back to top

I admire how the focus here is not centered around butthurt. Instead, it rationally looks at keeping the number of people in the B division healthy.

I'd go for a trial month.

I absolutely despise minmaxed cheese in B, and don't really fancy playing there because those games just aren't fun for me to play against.

That said, B often seems to have plenty of games going on. Someone else might be able to tell me if, generally, the division appears to be in decline?

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Azure



Joined: Jan 30, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2013 - 16:31 Reply with quote Back to top

I tentatively like the new rule suggestions. However, I need to run the math first. Essentially, what is the chance to KO+ or CAS with the new rules compared to the old rules. I think some math to back up this situation would be better than anecdotal opinions from people.
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