DrPoods
Joined: Nov 14, 2013
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 Posted:
Dec 25, 2013 - 10:56 |
 
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I must say I think a number of 32 would (hopefully) create more diversity in teams you will face.
I don't mind your list but I would enjoy seeing The Pirates of Sartosa and the Dwarf Engineers team. The Engineers certainly fit the fluff. Also, I would love to see an (mostly) AV8 Frenzy team! And the Sea Elves would be cool too. |
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Naru1981
Joined: Jan 01, 2009
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Dec 25, 2013 - 11:10 |
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would not be seen in ranked or box as they stick to lrb6 rules and rostas.
but maybe league at some point |
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Overhamsteren
Joined: May 27, 2006
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Dec 25, 2013 - 11:19 |
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Better balanced races would add to the diversity.  |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Dec 25, 2013 - 11:29 |
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Ok, this is much better, and safe (ish).
To answer the question, I think yes and no. You would see a bit more diversity of course, but the popular races would still be popular.
Also I'm a believer that newer races, shouldn't be tier 1 or 2. I mean if they were great teams, they'd already be in Blood Bowl right? So they should be on the weaker side. This also prevents negative feelings to the roster being added.
For Pirates, I think Garion's list has a bit too much diversity for me. I haven't played with mine yet, but it is:
Roster
Captain 0-1 7 3 4 8 GS/PA
Ogre 0-2 (usual skills etc)
Long Drong Slayers 0-2 (regular slayers)
1st mates 0-2 4 4 2 9 GS/PA
Crew 0-16 6 3 3 7 G/GPA
Goblin hands 0-4 A/GPS
Garions/Spubbbba's Dwarf Engineers look like real fun, I like the master engineer icon. One team I've started to experiment with recently is Dwarf Runesmiths, that you can buy lrb 4 runes for.
I'm also using Khorne. Cowhead's icons are really fantastic, especially on a fire based pitch.
The real problem with Khorne though is it's such a difficult roster to balance, and a crazy choice as they really are the arch-typical killer team, which is such a risk to add.
Another problem me and Garion had and talked a lot about was demon instability. On the table top is fine, but on clients it's a real pain and we couldn't agree on it. Especially with neg-traits.
So to cover instability there are 3 options.
1. If you play Table Top, demons are given blood lust with NO thralls to bite. However if they fail a blood lust it is not a turn over.
2. On CRP clients use normal vampire rule, and the marauders gain thrall.
3. On an lrb client like ski junkies, use pre lrb 3 vampire rules. Where a failed blood lust means the player doesn't turn up and is lost in the warp.
As for roster, I did like Cyanide's linemen. I thought the frenzy approach was a nice one. The name was lame though. However the positionals we (me and Garion) found unacceptable. In the end I went for:
0-16 Khorne Marauder 6338 - Frenzy GS-MAP 60k
0-2/4 (depending) BloodLetter 6428 - GS-AP Frenzy, Regenerate, Off for a bite 100k
0-1 BloodThirster 6 6 2 10 - Frenzy, Regenerate, Off for a bite, Mighty Blow, Tentacles 180k
Right now it's a young team and struggling a little.
I don't know really about the sea elves. I kind of like the idea of the blockers. However the icons aren't how I'd picture them, and I don't really like the idea of grab. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Dec 25, 2013 - 11:30 |
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| Stanley wrote: | would not be seen in ranked or box as they stick to lrb6 rules and rostas.
but maybe league at some point |
Had your head in the sand? |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Dec 25, 2013 - 11:34 |
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| Overhamsteren wrote: | | Better balanced races would add to the diversity. |
Yeah, I would agree. I think the linos and positionals should be priced slight differently. 2 aspects:
1. Make very weak players little less expensive. (Like the ogres. 10k discount for an ogre is a no brainer to me, as evidences that an all snotling team plus inducement strategy beat ogre+snotling teams in XFL.)
2. Alter some roster costings so that the total cost is the same, but the distribution of cost between linos and positionals is different. Like make amazon and norse lino slightly more expensive, and positionals cheaper/better. I would personally vote for a 5k based pricing.
amazon lino 55k
amazon thrower 65k
amazon catcher 65k
amazon blitzer 85k
but if that is not possible then something like this:
amazon lino 60k and Agility access
amazon thrower 70k
amazon catcher 70k
amazon blitzer 80k
This would also help hugely against MINMAXING if applied correctly on most teams. |
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DrPoods
Joined: Nov 14, 2013
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| Posted:
Dec 25, 2013 - 11:55 |
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I don't mind the Dwarf Slayers team either. Some fascinating ideas the guys have had. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Dec 25, 2013 - 12:06 |
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Well, you start with fluff, which is fine. Lets see also the mechanic side. What niche and skill base are missing from the current rosters:
- a mutation 1st non killer team (possibly mutation access on normal, but other skill access are mostly doubles, plus great stats to compensate.)
- an elfish team that has dodge on str3 player, but no block skill on that player.
- a wrestle type "blitzer", wrestle as starting skill
- an anti-killstack roster (possible with thick skull and fend as starting skill, and a fouler specialist.)
- a frenzy lino based roster (khorne is an example, but I am not sure this team needs killstack. Of course a nice add on, but could have other speciality, not only the killstack. The main mechanical identity is the frenzy on linos.)
- a team with guard as starting skill. (possible guard position instead of blitzer fpr power level consideration.)
- a mortal team with very cheap reroll for heroic actions (reroll 40k, and spice up with some heroic options like leap on ag3, sprint without sure feet, frenzy without block or jug, etc. hope you get the point, and take these as examples)
- a team with awesome passer. (min 2 skills, like pass, accurate) |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Dec 25, 2013 - 12:14 |
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I'm not sure I really get you and roster ideas, bghandras. First you say that stunty rosters are overly complex with skills, and here you are hinting at overdescribing.
I'm also a believer in a Dwarf is a Dwarf and an elf is an elf. So to give such races 'new' skills, there needs to be a very good reason in my opinion. Otherwise they are wrongly described.
Finding a niche of course is awesome, however I don't think it's always necessary. There are mixes and fringe rosters that are immense fun. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Dec 25, 2013 - 12:54 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | | I'm not sure I really get you and roster ideas, bghandras. First you say that stunty rosters are overly complex with skills, and here you are hinting at overdescribing. |
The complexity of a stunty roster is much more than in regular bb. The regular bb roster is made of vanilla linemen, some positionals with 1 skill, and one positional with 2 or 3 skills. So most rosters have exactly 1 player type which is overdescribed. (Usually a blitzer type.) I hinted above, that might be interesting to put that complexity on the thrower. So that the overall complexity is the same, but distributed differently. Example (for explanation purpose, not as a roster suggestion)
passer - 6347 pass, accurate, strong arm
blitzer - 7348 block
lineman - 7347 (woodelf lino is best suited for passing game.)
catcher - could be any, but this roster needs them. I vote for the simple one with the least skill (woodelf catchers have 2 skills), so 8347 catch
| harvestmouse wrote: |
I'm also a believer in a Dwarf is a Dwarf and an elf is an elf. So to give such races 'new' skills, there needs to be a very good reason in my opinion. Otherwise they are wrongly described. |
I fully agree. Please feel free to mix and match the niches between races, as I am sure you know the world better than myself.
| harvestmouse wrote: | | Finding a niche of course is awesome, however I don't think it's always necessary. There are mixes and fringe rosters that are immense fun. |
I think the best rosters combine the best of all worls:
- fills a niche
- fits the world
- has fringe potential
- not hopeless in competition (at least tier2)
So in my opinion it is not either or, but BOTH, or ALL. |
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Igvy
Joined: Apr 29, 2007
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Dec 25, 2013 - 13:45 |
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While I agree with the concept, there isn't much you could add mechanics wise that is very different from the existing teams.
You could go with crazy stuff, like the teams in stunty. But they don't really fit; best left to stunty.
So you either end up with basically a copy of an existing team. Or you make a completely broken team. (like chaos pact, 3 big guys, cheap SMPG access linos.. oh and an elf+goblin)
All i can see is no win. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Dec 25, 2013 - 14:00 |
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I would like to see more diversity in the Box either by forcing coaches to activate a minimum of 3 different races (1 agile/1 hybrid/1 bash) or by controlling the composition of the Box with some ad hoc rule.
Not whining about bash in itself, it's part of the game, but playing against the same races over and over again is boring after a while.
Sorry for the off-topic. |
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Cloggy
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 25, 2013 - 14:05 |
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| DrPoods wrote: | | I must say I think a number of 32 would (hopefully) create more diversity in teams you will face. |
I honestly do not think so. Has diversity increased when we got 3 new races on the switch to the new client? Nope!
People on here will always play the teams that are either:
1. Great at winning
2. Great at killing stuff
3. Both of the above
Even if you increased the number of rosters to 50, this would still be true.
Speaking for myself, I don't see any added value in even more rosters. I've faced the Khorne one on tabletop and to me it's just an unfortunate mix between norse and chaos that truly adds nothing.
A truly new concept like Slann is fun of course, but I seriously doubt you could make another 10 races that are something really different and not a blend of two or more things we already had. |
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lizvis
Joined: Jan 24, 2007
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| Posted:
Dec 25, 2013 - 14:14 |
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Overhamsteren
Joined: May 27, 2006
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| Posted:
Dec 25, 2013 - 14:26 |
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| Cloggy wrote: | | A truly new concept like Slann is fun of course, but I seriously doubt you could make another 10 races that are something really different and not a blend of two or more things we already had. |
More skill gimmick teams would be great I think, being able to start a 1000k team where every player has some non-top tier skill, everyone wants to try the all fend team or all pro team but building them is such a huge task.  |
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