Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Sep 04, 2014 - 12:09 |
 
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I disagree I think big hand for pick up and HMP down field shenanigans  |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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Oh I agree it'd be fun, but thematically the punter is the 'backfield' player and Big Hand doesn't help at all with backfield pickups (which is wrong of course as old Big Hand was ace). Giving him big hand would turn him into a ball retriever which is what the borrower should be for, maybe combined with the catcher. |
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m0gw41
Joined: Jun 12, 2012
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Sep 04, 2014 - 13:11 |
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My 2ps worth:
Borrowers are good, stripball is decent in a league where there isn't much in the way of sure hands. You always have the threat of a 3+ dodge into a cage to pop the ball on a 1d (assuming no tails, tents, guards or diving tackle). I chose nerves of steel on my tree so between them you can hand-off and then fire off a ttm regardless of who is around. More often than not both are threats but makes the oppo play different.
For me the punter is just a kick/leader bunny. Hail Mary can be used to stall from deep but I can't really think of many times I've used it at all. I quite like the KoR idea, it would make a change to see a player other than the catcher go back for ball retrieval.
Mootguards: I find this position is a bit of a problem, stand firm and strength 3 means you want them in contact but av7/stunty seems too fragile for such a holding player, especially needing doubles for block. Would av8 be too excessive? We have 'gator warriors with av8 that are basically fragile pygmies with more armour so there is a precedent.
Overall I don't think too much tinkering is needed though. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Sep 04, 2014 - 14:10 |
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For me borrowers are solely there for knocking the ball free. The ag4 guys are for getting it. |
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Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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Sep 04, 2014 - 14:43 |
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HMP is THE defining skill of the Punter, It's the PUNT! An absolute MUST.
I don't think SureHands fits the Punter at all, but KoR does.
Borrowers aren't bad with Strip Ball (which is their defining skill), but it's the Dump/NoS skills that are just a waste. That's why a potential change is being discussed. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Sep 04, 2014 - 15:45 |
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I'm not saying get rid of hmp, I like that. I just think the synergy between big hand and hmp is great and would actually make them useful for something so give them both. Yeah nos and dump off are a bit crap but that doesn't bother me really. Catching a ball in a crowd they have just knocked free doesn't happen much but it is a joy to see when it does.
Dump off I don't care about at all really it could go but really why change something where there is no problem.
That said I think giving the tree G access should be all for now. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Sep 04, 2014 - 21:35 |
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What I'm happy with, and would benefit the roster would be:
Punter: Add kor, remove stunty. Make 0-1 I'm fine with that. Kickers generally are 0-1.
Borrowers: The only 2 skills I'd consider are extra arms and big hand. Extra arms, remove NoS I'm more than fine with.
To compensate the above (i.e. making punters 0-1) make moot guard 0-3 (needs whatball to make an executive decision) I again am ok with. |
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Kalamona
Joined: Apr 21, 2005
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Sep 04, 2014 - 21:50 |
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if u give extra arms OR sure hands to the borrowers i will get rid of the punter straight away, as it will be even more useless than before. also is is way to big advantage when you ttm the borrower. he would strip the ball and score no problem.
I would go for the first idea. extra arm OR sure hands on the punter. 0-3 guards without stunty and all sorted. |
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awambawamb
Joined: Feb 17, 2008
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Sep 04, 2014 - 21:56 |
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Rare are the times a pro halfling team faces my Cheesefeets, but from what I've understood, they really lack the grinding potential - at least, keep key players alive from second half. put a beast against a couple of flings and don't move it away, tentacles will keep the little critters there. usually, the tree takes root somewhere else and the mootguards can't keep up against a tackler plaguebearer.
Slaves, per example, have those two atrocious mechavermin that can trim down at a consistent pace opposing stunties, plus a nice roller, a bomber and a ball retriever. |
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Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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Sep 04, 2014 - 22:15 |
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I don't like extra arms or surehands on the Punter (honestly I think they just need KoR). I could also see giving them Sure Feet for fluff reasons (although that doesn't make them all that much better at their role).
If you make the punter 0-1 then KoR won't make up the difference in the ability to secure the ball.
I think Stunty on them is ok, since the Punter isn't supposed to be a passer...
A second tree (or at least a G access tree) would help the team compete in the grind. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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Aiming for minimal, but effective changes I'd go with the following (with reasoning below):
- Add KoR to Punters
- Swap Dump-Off for Extra Arms on Borrowers
- Add G access to tree
These 3 (quite small) changes would add a lot to their potential without over-compensating or changing too much. No changes at all to number of positionals or cost of players.
I agree with Craft that changing the Punters to 1 makes them unable to cover the backfield. Removing Stunty, while improving them a lot, doesn't really make sense fluff-wise. If anyone was going to lose stunty it would surely be the Mootguard?
Swapping Dump-Off for extra arms increases the effectiveness of the underused borrower slightly while still thematically fitting very well. It doesn't encroach on anyone else's role in the team either.
I favour the G access tree over the extra Mootguard because it doesn't change their effectiveness out-of-the-box (where they are already good) and it doesn't reduce the number of regular flings that have to be fielded. I'm also not a massive fan of odd numbers of positionals, other than 1. Adding G and keeping P lets people build a proper tree for a proper pro team. Bashing Tree? Go for it. Throwing tree? That's great too! Options are always good. |
Last edited by mister__joshua on %b %05, %2014 - %12:%Sep; edited 1 time in total |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Sep 05, 2014 - 12:47 |
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| Craftnburn wrote: | | I don't like extra arms or surehands on the Punter (honestly I think they just need KoR). I could also see giving them Sure Feet for fluff reasons (although that doesn't make them all that much better at their role). |
If they were made more expensive because they were given KoR then I would probably never take them. I don't want anyone picking the ball up at the start of the drive other than my ag4 players. You can already have 2 linemen for 1 punter, which is just about fair because Kick is so useful. But if they cost more for skills I would never want they just become less attractive. |
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Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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Sep 05, 2014 - 14:21 |
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| Craftnburn wrote: | | I like the idea of giving the Punter KoR (ideally for 0 cost). |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Sep 05, 2014 - 14:37 |
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yeah it would have to be for free. I don't think it adds any value though. I still wouldnt want him near the ball tbh, the fast ag4 players are the only ones that should go for it imo. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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| Garion wrote: | | yeah it would have to be for free. I don't think it adds any value though. I still wouldnt want him near the ball tbh, the fast ag4 players are the only ones that should go for it imo. |
I think that depends on playstyle, or even what you're trying to do at the time. If you need to score in 2 turns then 2 KoR backfield punters and 2 storming catchers is a good bet (especially once they get Diving Catch). Likewise when playing fast/threatening opponents it's good to have people closer to the ball. If nothing else it lets you move one player closer to screen the catcher and react to the side the kick falls. |
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