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Chainsaw



Joined: Aug 31, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2014 - 19:29 Reply with quote Back to top

More seriously though; orcs want a bench. Against bashy teams (think: claw) it means being able to set up with 11 after being pulverized for a half. Against non-bashy teams it means plenty of fodder to foul with. There's a reason linemen are 50k. You should have several on hand.

Load up on guard. Guard, stand firm, fend are all your friends vs clawpomb. A smattering of grab helps too.

I'm also a big believer in juggernaut. I love to have a frenzy/juggernaut on hand. A blitzer with frenzy, juggernaut, piling on, mighty blow, and tackle is a mean green killing machine (well, not always, but hey UI never know when av7 will be bullet proof).

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PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2014 - 19:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Well I was going to chim in that you should NOT DUMP the niggle BoB, but to late.

The reason is very simple in the end.

He is ST4 and AV9...how many times does he have his AV broken in a match? No often, so Niggle is a small concern.

He was at 30SPP with block and Guard. Atleast take him to 31+SPP and see what happens on the skill up roll.

Finally by you retiring him now you made life a lot easier on everybody else trying to kill him!!! You did it for us and for free!!!! Thanks man.

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Purplegoo



Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2014 - 19:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Crikey, there's some... Interesting stuff in this thread, isn't there?!

Looks pretty decent to me. More men, Guard and MB and enjoy. Bit of SS or DT on a double can't hurt either. But, in general, all good. I don't see a lot to argue with.

Good call ditching the injury. No place on the team.
uzkulak



Joined: Mar 30, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2014 - 20:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Chainsaw wrote:
More seriously though; orcs want a bench. Against bashy teams (think: claw) it means being able to set up with 11 after being pulverized for a half. Against non-bashy teams it means plenty of fodder to foul with. There's a reason linemen are 50k. You should have several on hand.


I wholeheartedly conform to this opinion, 11 players just isn't enough as it is so important for bashy slow teams to have 11 players on the pitch at the start of the second half.

If on the other hand you do want to go the min/max route then your tv is already too high to be effective and you will need to start trimming the fat. I don't recommend this route.
licker



Joined: Jul 10, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2014 - 20:47 Reply with quote Back to top

AG4 thrower is nice, but you really really need a bench.

I know you may be thinking you want to hang out a lower TV (you're already too high to do that) and get those 2 new BoBs block, but it's hard enough to get AG2 players TDs that you don't need to compound it by trying to do it without a full 11 on the pitch.

You also really need to pray for dodge on your thrower, otherwise the AG4 is kind of a waste in my opinion, well as much as the orc thrower is a waste in general, but since you don't have a ball carrying blitzer I guess he has to be your ball carrier, so Dodge, Block and Fend, but MA5 just kicks your ass too frequently for my taste when you have MA6 to do the job Sad
Rabe



Joined: Jun 06, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2014 - 21:12 Reply with quote Back to top

He's quite a good retriever... Who needs Dodge if you can get the ball and pass it with Nerves of Steel? Wink

Dump-Off would be a good next option (both after Block obviously).









Sorry, Agility Monsters thinking. Not to be taken seriously (even though it would be fun for sure).

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licker



Joined: Jul 10, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2014 - 21:16 Reply with quote Back to top

You need dodge to get to the pick up spot, and/or to get out of the pick up spot.

Nerves of Steel would be ridiculous Wink

Dump off isn't totally ridiculous, but as there are few decent receivers on an orc team it's still pretty ridiculous.

Block, Fend, Leader on normals.

Dodge on a double.

Any stat (+MA over +AV).

Lastly, if your thrower gets permed/killed do not replace him. You should add surehands to one of your non-POMBing blitzers and let him be your ball carrier.
Purplegoo



Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2014 - 21:29 Reply with quote Back to top

AG4 Sure Hands is never a bad thing to have on your team, regardless of race. It's not a waste without Dodge.

8/9 becomes 35/36. That can be significant, on occasion. Blitzes or kicks that land right on the touchline happen, and that added security can be very useful. Things do not always work out, perhaps the best you can do on defence is force an early score. Perhaps you'll have to score in 4. So long as you don't waste passing skills on him, that's another use. Perhaps things have gone really well and the ball spills into two tacklezones, but you're 3 Orcs down and you must pick it up now or lose the advantage. 3/4 without having to expend a RR looks a lot better than 5/9 on such occasions. It goes on.

AG4 is a worthwhile TV expenditure on an Orc team. If it comes along on a Thrower, fine.

I know it's pretty unfair to pick on one ropey thing in a thread dripping with pretty awful advice, but I'd not know where to start with some of it. Wink
Bullroarer4



Joined: Oct 22, 2012

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2014 - 21:43 Reply with quote Back to top

licker wrote:


Lastly, if your thrower gets permed/killed do not replace him. You should add surehands to one of your non-POMBing blitzers and let him be your ball carrier.


Is this the general consensus among Orc coaches? That ma5 av8 is just too much of a liability and lineorcs fill the roster better?

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Bullroarer4



Joined: Oct 22, 2012

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2014 - 21:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Purplegoo wrote:


AG4 is a worthwhile TV expenditure on an Orc team. If it comes along on a Thrower, fine.

I know it's pretty unfair to pick on one ropey thing in a thread dripping with pretty awful advice, but I'd not know where to start with some of it. Wink


My experience has tended towards the dodgy side so I am unsure what is "good" and "bad" advice. Especially for a perpetual team rather than league play.

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licker



Joined: Jul 10, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2014 - 21:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Maybe waste was too strong of a word, but meh, if you only use him for ball retrieving then he doesn't really need any other skills anyway.

If you want him to be more of a scary player, dodge is what takes him all the way there. If for no other reason than that it makes him that much better of a ball carrier the odd times he does get blitzed, or the odd times you feel you need to leave him open vs. a non-tackle player.

The really scary player is the one who has all those free rrs built in, so that when they have to make the difficult play you don't have to fret over the current state of your rrs, and you can use one for other actions during that turn as well.

Sure hands and dodge are the 2 key ones to me, pass is actually a nice bonus, but it's not as valuable without some better catchers, though punting is a frequently over looked tactic.

That's to say that I'd rather have a blitzer with sure hands (and AG of course, but beggers and such...) and not even have a thrower on the team at all. It smacks too much of extreme TV management, but it's really the MA5 and AV8 that keeps me from embracing throwers at higher TVs.

A line orc is as fast and as agile as the thrower. Yes, sure hands is a really great skill, but since we're really talking about emergency situations you have to make due with what you have.

That said my experience comes more from playing against orcs than from my own attempts at playing them at higher TVs (with my Arizona Orcinals a fluffy exception). I'm usually happy to see an orc team with a ball carrying thrower because that's the easiest guy (gobbos non withstanding) to get off the pitch (claw non-withstanding). And once he's gone, the orc ball handling becomes far more difficult. Kind of like dwarfs if you get the runners out, but dwarfs really need runners (and they are better than orc throwers anyway) comparatively.

So yes, you have an AG4 orc, have fun, sure hands is there, you can stick on block and leader if you want, but without dodge he starts to become a TV fat target who will burn your RRs when he does need to break contact for whatever reason.
Purplegoo



Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2014 - 22:03 Reply with quote Back to top

It depends on how your team develops as to how they end up at a high TV. Not all of that is in your hands as a coach, but reacting to it is. If you were drawing a team up on a piece of paper, a Blitzer ball handler might well be ideal. However, real life never works that way. It's one of the reasons these silly threads suggesting Legend skill rolls at 16 spps are utter nonsense. If you have an AG4 Thrower, enjoy unleashing all four Blitzers, since they are the pacemen, to go do their thing. If you lose a point MA having a Thrower on the ball, you also lose a point of MA moving ahead of the ball with a Blitzer on it and a Lino off getting involved. Swings and roundabouts. Regardless of TV, use what you get.

Orcs will usually field 10 AV9 players if they have a Thrower. If the AV8 guy really is that much of a weakness and target, hiding him behind the AV9 guys really shouldn't be that difficult. If it all goes wrong and he dies, fine, but if my opponent really thinks he can get through to one player I'm trying to protect without something cataclysmic and unlikely happening, he'd better have a prescription ready to go.

If I were the OP, I'd hire a Lino and a Goblin (always my 13th man) and concentrate on developing that core 13 he's got with decent skills (well, 12, not the Goblin). Or, you know, go mental and sack all of the Black Orcs. Makes my life easier should we ever play, so I don't know why I care. Wink
Rabe



Joined: Jun 06, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2014 - 22:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Wait... opponents going after the one guy that seems to be an easier target thanks to AV 8 does ring a bell... Getting into full contact with dwarves to get the Guards in for the assists... even using the blitz... But who would target even a normal orc thrower like that?!

I gotta get out of here!

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Chainsaw



Joined: Aug 31, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2014 - 22:52 Reply with quote Back to top

PainState wrote:
Well I was going to chim in that you should NOT DUMP the niggle BoB, but to late.

The reason is very simple in the end.

He is ST4 and AV9...how many times does he have his AV broken in a match? No often, so Niggle is a small concern.

He was at 30SPP with block and Guard. Atleast take him to 31+SPP and see what happens on the skill up roll.

Finally by you retiring him now you made life a lot easier on everybody else trying to kill him!!! You did it for us and for free!!!! Thanks man.

Don't listen to this guy. Niggles vs claw = easy prey. Whilst there are exceptions, they should be exceptional.

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pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2014 - 00:32 Reply with quote Back to top

I do like a Leader thrower at lower TV. Allows one to drop a RR.

God I suck.

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