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pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2014 - 00:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Chainsaw wrote:
PainState wrote:
Well I was going to chim in that you should NOT DUMP the niggle BoB, but to late.

The reason is very simple in the end.

He is ST4 and AV9...how many times does he have his AV broken in a match? No often, so Niggle is a small concern.

He was at 30SPP with block and Guard. Atleast take him to 31+SPP and see what happens on the skill up roll.

Finally by you retiring him now you made life a lot easier on everybody else trying to kill him!!! You did it for us and for free!!!! Thanks man.

Don't listen to this guy. Niggles vs claw = easy prey. Whilst there are exceptions, they should be exceptional.


True, but its a R team, so will face claw (probably) less often than a B orc team.

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licker



Joined: Jul 10, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2014 - 00:49 Reply with quote Back to top

Purplegoo wrote:
Orcs will usually field 10 AV9 players if they have a Thrower. If the AV8 guy really is that much of a weakness and target, hiding him behind the AV9 guys really shouldn't be that difficult. If it all goes wrong and he dies, fine, but if my opponent really thinks he can get through to one player I'm trying to protect without something cataclysmic and unlikely happening, he'd better have a prescription ready to go.


Mmmm

It's not about blitzing the thrower the way you might blitz skinks on a lizard team, its that at some point the thrower usually winds up needing to be put in the line of fire, and at that point he can be trouble. More on defense than on offense, but of course everything depends on who your opponent is.

Alternative is to leave the AG4 thrower on the bench for defense, this seems a highly dubious strategy to me, as you want him for the pick up steal right?

I can only speak from my experience, at lower TV when you do use the thrower more because you have not had time to develop a blitzer ball carrier, they get hit, and the difference between AV8 and 9 is very apparent. So is MA5 vs. MA6 in many situations, the prime being getting to a sideline from the center of the pitch.

Yet the thrower is good for low TV if only for sure hands, and he's easy to farm a few passes with so skills pretty quickly compared to other orcs who you are less likely to try to farm with.

AG4 is worth it on any player, even a line orc, and it should be used as much as possible while the player lasts. Though I would still develop a blitzer ball carrier, even if only with sure hands, because that redundancy is good to have.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2014 - 01:55 Reply with quote Back to top

I like a Thrower when I've got normals on all my Blitzers, and they're all loading up on S skills. You've got an AG4 one, that's cool. That means you can QP instead of handing off, when/if the time comes, and you can dodge off a mark on a 2+. Also helps on busted plays. Block next, then something silly like Nerves or Fend or Kickoff Return or Safe Throw (not an endorsement on any count). Main advantage though is all your Blitzers can hit or Guard.

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PaddyMick



Joined: Jan 03, 2012

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2014 - 02:20 Reply with quote Back to top

Throwers are very useful on an orc team to get the ball into a cage in the middle of the pitch on turn 1 of your offense vs a fast team with a Kicker. Pick up, pass to blitzer, catch - all with a rr; and on a 2+ for some rolls with the right skills/stats. Kick off return helps. I might be stating the obvious but i've lost a lot of games because I couldn't do this. I'd prefer not to carry the ball with the thrower for the drive though because of the MA5. After the pass the thrower joins the back of the cage and gets involved with assists or blocking if he has block.
Chainsaw



Joined: Aug 31, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2014 - 02:35 Reply with quote Back to top

pythrr wrote:
Chainsaw wrote:
Niggles vs claw = easy prey. Whilst there are exceptions, they should be exceptional.

True, but its a R team, so will face claw (probably) less often than a B orc team.

Not true in tournaments, and that's where it counts.

PaddyMick wrote:
Throwers are very useful on an orc team to get the ball into a cage in the middle of the pitch on turn 1 of your offense vs a fast team with a Kicker.

That tactic will cost you games, I'd wager, unless you have some ag4 on your team. Orcs are built for carrying, not passing. If you can't get around the ball T1 (or T2 after being at a safe distance T1) then you've probably been over aggressive on your LOS strategy.

Orc throwers are good for Leader. It's like a bonus reroll for overtime if the rest of your roster is strong.

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PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2014 - 03:34 Reply with quote Back to top

pythrr wrote:
Chainsaw wrote:
PainState wrote:
Well I was going to chim in that you should NOT DUMP the niggle BoB, but to late.

The reason is very simple in the end.

He is ST4 and AV9...how many times does he have his AV broken in a match? No often, so Niggle is a small concern.

He was at 30SPP with block and Guard. Atleast take him to 31+SPP and see what happens on the skill up roll.

Finally by you retiring him now you made life a lot easier on everybody else trying to kill him!!! You did it for us and for free!!!! Thanks man.

Don't listen to this guy. Niggles vs claw = easy prey. Whilst there are exceptions, they should be exceptional.


True, but its a R team, so will face claw (probably) less often than a B orc team.


If that guy with a claw/MB/PO is going to target my ST4 niggled BoB all game long and not target my AG4 ball handlers or blitzers....Then that niggled BoB is a blessing...he is targeting the wrong guy.

I dont care if you kill my niggled BoB but I will come unglued if you kill a guy I care about.

Same goes for having a few goblins...you blitz my goblins every turn instead of my blitzers and BoB's...I love you man.

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Purplegoo



Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2014 - 08:28 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm sure the OP is thoroughly confused.

There was a time when this forum was pretty sensible, but of late, some of these threads could just as easily appear in the terrible (and long abandoned by sensible people) TFF 'strategy' section (making coaches poorer, one thread at a time). I should just sit on my hands until Garion's moon disappears. Can we call it that? A Garion moon? Wink
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2014 - 09:00 Reply with quote Back to top

I wish it would end I really do.... There has been some Mind bogglingly terrible advice popping up in many threads of late. It must be tricky for the newer coaches to wade through the sludge to find the nuggets of good advice.

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Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2014 - 09:22 Reply with quote Back to top

I like your team generally. It is probably more a matter of style,

but I like to load up on Guard and take Mighty Blow and Piling on less early on. It is probably old LRB thinking though. Also, jump up is a neat skill, but I probably would have gone Dodge both times. Blodge is still great to have even in LRB6. Finally a blitzer with surehands (and even better with Blodge as well) is great for dealing with wardancers and other pesky jumpy things. Stand Firm is decent on the troll, but I would have taken Guard first. Definitely next (normal) skill for the Troll.

Still, I can see that your team would work for you, I guess its all about building a team to a particular playing style. I am not really fan of the POMB style of play to the detriment of all else. It saddens me that most responses to this thread assume POMB is the best way to build a team...

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Purplegoo



Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2014 - 10:23 Reply with quote Back to top

I’m on board with your general feeling, Grod. You can still succeed in this edition by playing the good, solid, positional Blood Bowl (with skills to augment that style, Guard being God, to coin a phrase) that LRB4 taught you. I don’t have a PO player on any team (at the moment, nor a Claw, let alone some combination of two or three of the usual suspects – and I didn’t when I was heavily playing in B with the same win %, before that old chestnut rears it’s head). But I didn’t pick up on it because it is one way of doing it, even if it isn’t to my taste. I would have also taken Dodge, SS or DT on doubles, something positional rather than focussing on my next hit.

It must be a tricky cycle to break free of. If you’re new or worried about how well you’re building a team, early MB / PO like this will certainly get you the odd result and reinforce the skill pick. But on the occasions it doesn’t work, it will be tricky without positional skills to fall back on. I’d tend to start with Guard in mind first, and then add in the attritional skills later so you have at least two plans, depending on how things go.

Styles make fights, and all of that.


Last edited by Purplegoo on Apr 02, 2014 - 10:24; edited 1 time in total
PaddyMick



Joined: Jan 03, 2012

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2014 - 10:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Chainsaw wrote:

That tactic will cost you games, I'd wager, unless you have some ag4 on your team. Orcs are built for carrying, not passing. If you can't get around the ball T1 (or T2 after being at a safe distance T1) then you've probably been over aggressive on your LOS strategy.

Orc throwers are good for Leader. It's like a bonus reroll for overtime if the rest of your roster is strong.


I get what you are saying, but...

Isn't being overly aggressive on the LOS a good thing, if you can do it relatively safely?

Also, when you need to score in 4 turns or less, it's good to be able to get the ball forward quickly and reliably - and it's only 2 skills (Accurate and KOR or Strong Arm) on a guy that's easy to skill up.

/genuine questions, interested in your opinion
Rat_Salat



Joined: Apr 22, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2014 - 10:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Orc throwers are decent enough at lower TV.

Eventually though, you probably want to dump him for a dedicated blitzer. Lower movement can be problematic, and throwers quickly run out of good singles and end up with mediocre skills like Kickoff Return and Fend. The OP was fortunate enough to get +AG, so obviously he's a keeper, at least for a while. He's going to run out of good singles like any other Orc Thrower though, and I'd avoid scoring with him much.
PaddyMick



Joined: Jan 03, 2012

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2014 - 10:33 Reply with quote Back to top

@rat_salat

Agreed Blitzers are the best ball carriers.
I don't think Throwers run out of good singles though - after Accurate and Block there is Tackle and Leader. That's 4, and there will be probably be a double or stat by or before skill 5. KOR isn't too bad, for the reason you have stated - low MA.
Bullroarer4



Joined: Oct 22, 2012

Post   Posted: Oct 09, 2014 - 18:54 Reply with quote Back to top

well...having played many more games with my Orc team, i am still thoroughly confused as to whether i am building(playing?) this team correctly. with mounting injuries along my Core players, some well reasoned advice would be appreciated.

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JimmyFantastic



Joined: Feb 06, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 09, 2014 - 18:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Well looking at your TV you are playing them wrong. Min-max to the max!

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