koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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 Posted:
Apr 11, 2014 - 16:53 |
 
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Yeah, thanks Licker. Ideally you would have waited until page 5 to respond to get maximum coverage. But hey... 
There cannot ever be a unified point to R & B. That is the point of them. So that you can hopefully get a quick game and play it pretty much how you like.
If you want to tie it down to something unified then that is a league and will just restrict your user base even more.
I don't play every game with the same mentality. Sprints are not meant to be 'the point' they are a bit of extra spice like E.L.F.
The Sprints are what they are because I don't have any control over scheduling. If I would probably have something different by now.
I wouldn't change them because of 'mentality'. People can follow them or not. It's their choice. |
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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 4 more teams needed |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 11, 2014 - 17:35 |
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sprints are fun, E.L.F is fun, ARR is fun, Ranked is fun, Box is fun, but league is most fun. It doesnt mean they all can't co-exist.
Lets all just have fun  |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Apr 11, 2014 - 17:36 |
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| Garion wrote: | sprints are fun, E.L.F is fun, ARR is fun, Ranked is fun, Box is fun, but league is most fun. It doesnt mean they all can't co-exist.
Lets all just have fun |
Sorry, the raffle for fun doesn't begin until 20:00 server time. |
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Frankenstein
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 11, 2014 - 20:11 |
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| backelie wrote: | | Some people here seem to have missed that indie / low-budget games are doing better than ever. If it weren't for the IP rights issues a fumbbl-like client could compete fairly well with cyanide if it were easily available through outlets like eg Steam / GOG / Humble store. |
It's actually absolutely amazing what Christer has been able to build and accomplish with FUMBBL, especially as far as community, side and tournaments are concerned.
I think I know of no side that comes close to FUMBBL with regard to coherence (admittedly there are tons of sides out there I don't know of, so I wouldn't mind if people would point me towards similar places in the net). Of course there are other awesome sides out there, but I can't remember any of them featuring the full package.
That said, I totally agree that FUMBBL would probably be highly profitable and competitive if it had access to the proper IP. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 12, 2014 - 00:44 |
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| koadah wrote: | | Yeah, thanks Licker. Ideally you would have waited until page 5 to respond to get maximum coverage. But hey... |
Noted... I'll do better next time
| koadah wrote: | | There cannot ever be a unified point to R & B. That is the point of them. So that you can hopefully get a quick game and play it pretty much how you like. |
Well there could be, currently there isn't, but that wouldn't preclude their being some kind of unified reason to play games other than just to play games.
The problem though is when you say 'pretty much how you like'. Then it starts to go wonky in B, because you can't, unless 'how you like' includes playing the majority of your higher TV games against the same kinds of teams over and over.
| koadah wrote: | | If you want to tie it down to something unified then that is a league and will just restrict your user base even more. |
Depends on what the reason is, and how fully the community accepts it. *shrug* I'm not expecting anything to change, but I'm open to the possibility that it could. Mostly, any meaningful change is going to require a large expansion of the player base. Since no one sees that happening (even though it should, FUMBBL is awesome after all), we're stuck with the same entrenched mentalities which have no particular reason to change until the number of games truly becomes unsustainable. By then it will be too late though.
| koadah wrote: | | I don't play every game with the same mentality. Sprints are not meant to be 'the point' they are a bit of extra spice like E.L.F. |
I'm not sure you are using mentality in the same way I was. I'm sure you play all your B and R games to win (L is a different beast and fairly tangential). If you weren't you'd be breaking site rules. Yeah, you might have to try to arrange some certain matchups for an R sprint, but in B, how do you play with a different mentality?
| koadah wrote: | The Sprints are what they are because I don't have any control over scheduling. If I would probably have something different by now.
I wouldn't change them because of 'mentality'. People can follow them or not. It's their choice. |
That's not what I mean. If the Box mentality shifted away from as much cpomb spam and towards a more diverse set of teams the need for ARR or for classing certain teams certain ways, or giving points for killing CPOMBers would change. You could keep it all the same, but I don't think you'd want to at that point.
Not that that point is coming, so carry on sprinting as you like. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Apr 12, 2014 - 03:30 |
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| licker wrote: | | koadah wrote: | | Yeah, thanks Licker. Ideally you would have waited until page 5 to respond to get maximum coverage. But hey... |
Noted... I'll do better next time
| koadah wrote: | | There cannot ever be a unified point to R & B. That is the point of them. So that you can hopefully get a quick game and play it pretty much how you like. |
Well there could be, currently there isn't, but that wouldn't preclude their being some kind of unified reason to play games other than just to play games.
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What are you thinking of here? Wouldn't it be similar to Sprints, CR, the Championship, awards etc.
Some people might follow it but many maybe most wouldn't.
You couldn't call it unified.
| licker wrote: |
The problem though is when you say 'pretty much how you like'. Then it starts to go wonky in B, because you can't, unless 'how you like' includes playing the majority of your higher TV games against the same kinds of teams over and over.
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I play how I like. I cannot pick the opposition. They could be CPOMBers, dwarves, slow, whiners, etc.
I don't like lizardmen either.
| licker wrote: |
| koadah wrote: | | I don't play every game with the same mentality. Sprints are not meant to be 'the point' they are a bit of extra spice like E.L.F. |
I'm not sure you are using mentality in the same way I was. I'm sure you play all your B and R games to win (L is a different beast and fairly tangential). If you weren't you'd be breaking site rules. Yeah, you might have to try to arrange some certain matchups for an R sprint, but in B, how do you play with a different mentality? |
Well, I don't play to lose. But how much winning means depends on how I feel at the time. I may feel competitive, I may not. Without the more casual coaches to make up the numbers Box would be long dead.
| licker wrote: |
| koadah wrote: | The Sprints are what they are because I don't have any control over scheduling. If I would probably have something different by now.
I wouldn't change them because of 'mentality'. People can follow them or not. It's their choice. |
That's not what I mean. If the Box mentality shifted away from as much cpomb spam and towards a more diverse set of teams the need for ARR or for classing certain teams certain ways, or giving points for killing CPOMBers would change. You could keep it all the same, but I don't think you'd want to at that point.
Not that that point is coming, so carry on sprinting as you like. |
ARR isn't my Sprint. It's HappyGrue's. Human League was mine but is now OenarLod's. There will still be a bottom 8 races. People will still prefer Wood & Dark Elves to high & pro. The tier 2 teams will remain tier 2.
It will still be fun to kill CPOMBers. (And one turners too.  )
As I said before, everyone playing three teams sounds nice but would people play them all to high TV? No. Most of those teams stink at high TV so why bother?
They'll be out bashed by claw boys and out dodged by elves.
When you get your lovely elves to high TV will you carry on playing them? Or will you think "Oooh, they look beautiful. Just ripe for Major"?
Try to force it and you'll just P everyone off.
On top of that, a lot of people just prefer lower TV. it is simpler, fewer skills on the field. Less all round bash, blodge, +ag, oneturning etc. etc.
Mutation teams benefit most from being at high TV. Apart from elves I suppose. But they'll fear losing TV and will park.
You'll need to offer us more that "everyone play 3 teams". Especially if they are going to pick CDs & necros. |
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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 4 more teams needed |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 12, 2014 - 05:38 |
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I don't play tournaments so I don't see the point of parking any team. If others do they'll have to add another 3rd team anyway.
High TV is all relative anyway. High TV for some teams is 1500, but that's where they would want to match up against 2000 teams and rape them with their inducements.
But even so, the match maker doesn't schedule those that much anyway.
Diversity is diversity, I'm not really concerned with where it winds up. I personally don't see the point in living artificially at a low TV and I personally don't see the point in throwing away any team that gets past 15 games, but I won't stop you if that's what you want to do.
Anyway, the point is change the mentality of the coaches to not want to do that. Make a reason to play a team indefinitely, which is what B and R are supposed to let you do really. That's the mentality that needs to change. Will it? Dunno, but it certainly won't if no one tries to make it.
The best start would be to change the 'mission statement' for B to reflect what Christer (or the community, or the admins, or you) actually wants it to be. Right now the mission statement rings false, so B isn't being used the way 'it's supposed to'. Change the statement to reflect its current reality is one way to go. I think another way would be better. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Apr 12, 2014 - 10:16 |
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| licker wrote: | | I don't play tournaments so I don't see the point of parking any team. If others do they'll have to add another 3rd team anyway. |
Yes, and the new team would start at 0 games and 1000TV where there is already plenty of diversity.
| licker wrote: |
High TV is all relative anyway. High TV for some teams is 1500, but that's where they would want to match up against 2000 teams and rape them with their inducements. |
Apart from flings & gobbos which are those?
| licker wrote: |
But even so, the match maker doesn't schedule those that much anyway. |
Often enough to scare off teams that are not flings & gobbos. Not that there are many F & G.
| licker wrote: |
Diversity is diversity, I'm not really concerned with where it winds up. |
Ah, so there is not really a problem then.
Before the change people could sit around 1600-1700 if they wanted. Now I assume that is gone or at least more 'risky'.
| licker wrote: |
I personally don't see the point in living artificially at a low TV and I personally don't see the point in throwing away any team that gets past 15 games, but I won't stop you if that's what you want to do. |
I haven't thrown away any teams with more than one game. You only have one team with more than 30 games. CDs.
If you say that you are going to continue playing your wuss teams past say 50 games I suppose we'll have to take your word for it. But you haven't done it so far.
| licker wrote: |
Anyway, the point is change the mentality of the coaches to not want to do that. Make a reason to play a team indefinitely, which is what B and R are supposed to let you do really. That's the mentality that needs to change. Will it? Dunno, but it certainly won't if no one tries to make it. |
Who is trying to change it? Your proposal doesn't offer us anything.
Some kind of award at 50 games, a team potion at 100? That would be something.
You could plug another Sprint for us. 
But so far I am seeing nothing that will make much if any difference.
| licker wrote: |
The best start would be to change the 'mission statement' for B to reflect what Christer (or the community, or the admins, or you) actually wants it to be. Right now the mission statement rings false, so B isn't being used the way 'it's supposed to'. Change the statement to reflect its current reality is one way to go. I think another way would be better. |
Right now it tells it how it is.
As we said, there is no Championship or anything to compete for. Even if there was you couldn't force people to compete for it.
Maybe when you have dumped your CDs or necros for humans and played the humans & DEs to 60-70 games each I'll take your suggestion more seriously.
My Pros are at 18 games. Garion is at around 5. We'll keep you posted.
Let us know when you have some points. |
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