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Kam



Joined: Nov 06, 2012

Post   Posted: May 06, 2014 - 01:06 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks again for the guide.

I've downloaded it on my ereader - are the illustrations for the different setups missing (except the first one) or is my pdf app doing funky things again?

As for the content, I have a remark. The chapter about probabilities is very interresting when you're into that, but sometimes it's as if we weren't talking about BB. As you said yourself, complex probabilities involving one or several rerolls are impossible to calculate IG, unless you're a real maths freak. But I would add it doesn't matter. I never calculate probabilities, yet I do it every roll. Smile

Probabilities are great when they are kept simple. Knowing that a one die block with a blocker is just as likely to suceed than a dodge with an elf for instance may change your gameplay. And generally, it helps with the first rule of BB: always to do the safest actions first, unless you have a better plan. That being said, I never calculate the odds of complex actions, because it doesn't matter. You quickly gain enough experience to know what's likely to suceed, and what's not. At best, I will list the rolls in my head, and that's enough to know if I have a chance to succeed, or if I have to sacrifice another chicken in Nuffle's name.

It doesn't matter, because when you do those complex (and generally very risky) actions, you do them because you have no other choice (or because you keep reevaluating the odds: see the next paragraph). There's the last chance attempt. The impossible play you will try anyway because it's your last chance. For instance, if my Khemris are losing 2-1 in a tournament, I'm gonna try this AG2 long bomb/hand over/dodge/6 GFI, even if the odds are impossible, because that's the only thing I can do.

But generally, when I complete an impossible play, it's simply because I keep reevaluating the odds in my head. I have a match with my flings in mind (I could give you hundreds of other exemples). The ball is in my opponent's half, in two tz. My team was outbashed, and half of the flings are at the kitchen's door already). However, I have two AG4 in range. One could score, but he's too far to retrieve the ball. My only option if I wanna score this turn is to pick up the ball after a bunch of dodges and GFI, pass and catch in one tz. Good news: both guys are AG4 stunties, and one of them has Sure Feet. And I have a rr. That's still an impossible play, but there's not many alternatives.

I start with my ball retriever. First dodges ok, I haven't used the Dodge skill yet. The odds are getting better. I'm next to the ball. If I had used my rr before, I could have stopped there: the odds would have been way too bad to continue, and putting the ball in a tz with a blodge SS is already pretty good, but I still have my rr. The GFI works, the pick up as well. And now, suddenly, everything becomes possible. One more GFI and a 35/36 dodge later, and I still have my rr, and I can pass. 4+ then 3+. That's what I need to score. It's risky, but it's no longer an impossible play. And even if I miss the throw, the ball would be in a better place (the current BC could be 3d blitzed if he keeps the ball anyway). The fling passes the ball... and his mate scores.

Of course, that situation was a bit extreme, but the same mechanism applies every turn. 1/6 is bad odds. 1/36, not so much. Before every action, I check if I have rerolls (skills like dodge or SH or team rerolls). If I do, I can keep doing fancy things with the ball or my fists, and it doesn't matter if my norses weren't supposed to one die the whole opposing team after a perfect defense event. The odds were impossible, but I don't care. I do one roll after another, and as long as I still have that rr, I can keep going (if of course that's with a player I absolutely can't afford to lose).

To sum it up for a beginner, I'd say:

- Know the probabilties for the most common actions (the odds to succeed ONE move).
- Always reevaluate the probabilities. Every roll. Dodging 5 times in a row with an AG3 is not likely to happen, but if you've made the first four dodges, you only have 1/9 chance to trip. In the meantime, if you have used your rr for something that seemed easy, you may want to stop here and come up with a new plan, unless the field is already secured.
- Nomatter what, always assume everything will fail, and be prepared for that. Cover your thrower if you can in case he fumbles the pass. Cage around the guy you're handing the ball to in case he fails the pickup, etc..
- If the only thing you have left is an impossible gameplay, always assume you're gonna roll a 6 next. 1/196 chance is better than zero chance at all.

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Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: May 06, 2014 - 02:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Kam wrote:
are the illustrations for the different setups missing (except the first one) or is my pdf app doing funky things again?

Most pictures should be there. Depending on what you are referring to. I think they are all in the same format, so would be strange if some are there and some missing.

Quote:
As for the content, I have a remark. The chapter about probabilities is very interresting when you're into that, but sometimes it's as if we weren't talking about BB. As you said yourself, complex probabilities involving one or several rerolls are impossible to calculate IG, unless you're a real maths freak. But I would add it doesn't matter

I think the advanced part is much more focused on the dynamics in BB than the beginning. I think it holds probably the most valueable informations of the whole probability part. It's not something everyone is aware of who understands probabilities, exactly because it is so specific towards how RR operate. But of course you have to be into it and I think it does matter to be able to calculate these things on and off game. And.. uhm... ah nevermind.. it would take forever to talk this through Smile There is the order of actions part that is apparently incomplete anyways.. I'll discuss it there...might add some of your comments here and.. maybe put a little info window before the advanced part with:
Quote:
Kam recommends not to read this. It is too complicated.
Wink
If that is fine with you.


Last edited by Wreckage on May 06, 2014 - 02:48; edited 1 time in total
Rat_Salat



Joined: Apr 22, 2011

Post   Posted: May 06, 2014 - 02:36 Reply with quote Back to top

This is the best guide to playing bloodbowl in existence. Masterful work Wreckage.
Kam



Joined: Nov 06, 2012

Post   Posted: May 06, 2014 - 03:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Haha! Yes it's fine by me, even though at the end of the day, I love stats.

And don't get me wrong, I think everybody should at least try to get into it. We would have fewer rookie coaches raging because they failed their AG4 dodge, but finding obvious that an AG3 with the Dodge skill trips. Wink

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Kam



Joined: Nov 06, 2012

Post   Posted: May 06, 2014 - 03:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Oh and as for the images, it must come from my reader then - it does weird things with pdf sometimes when you change the font size to make them more readable.

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Moonsong



Joined: Apr 23, 2014

Post   Posted: May 06, 2014 - 13:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Link disabled Sad
Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: May 06, 2014 - 13:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Moonsong wrote:
Link disabled Sad

I don't know why they disabled it. Sad Also for some time it seems it was possible to view it online what doesn't seem to work anymore..
Put a new link in place.


Last edited by Wreckage on May 06, 2014 - 14:20; edited 2 times in total
Shinomune



Joined: Apr 04, 2009

Post   Posted: May 06, 2014 - 14:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Wreckage wrote:
Put a new link in place.


Thank you! Very Happy
mincoire



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 06, 2014 - 21:04 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for the game the other day, sorry i could not add to your loss total!
Pentalarc



Joined: Mar 17, 2012

Post   Posted: May 06, 2014 - 22:06 Reply with quote Back to top

Very awesome just from the table of contents. . .reading now.
albinv



Joined: Sep 15, 2012

Post 14 Posted: Aug 27, 2014 - 19:25 Reply with quote Back to top

Just had a quick sneak ...

BB world has been waiting for something more extensive and more detailed i guess.

I surely did. Just recently started a note with remarkable positional patterns that one should memorize, but have only 2-3 entries so far. Especially curious about that part, will have a look soon.

Seems like a tremendous effort has gone into this.

Thank you!


Last edited by albinv on Aug 27, 2014 - 21:47; edited 2 times in total
albinv



Joined: Sep 15, 2012

Post   Posted: Aug 27, 2014 - 19:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Omg - it starts with maths! You cheated me...

Brilliant tactic though.

Will still have to give it a go then! Razz


Last edited by albinv on Aug 27, 2014 - 21:48; edited 3 times in total
selfy_74



Joined: Sep 03, 2010

Post   Posted: Aug 27, 2014 - 19:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Plot was weak, Characters were one-dimensional. Overall just felt contrived.

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huff



Joined: Dec 19, 2009

Post   Posted: May 17, 2015 - 21:06 Reply with quote Back to top

selfy_74 wrote:
Plot was weak, Characters were one-dimensional. Overall just felt contrived.


I found it to be a derivative of social commentary and an allegory of just what not to do.
Alarick



Joined: Feb 07, 2017

Post   Posted: Sep 15, 2018 - 16:49 Reply with quote Back to top

Hola!
I'm from Mexico and I translated the book into Spanish.
I ask by this means to allow me to spread it free among Spanish speakers, BB players
If the author sends me an email address where I can send the translation for approval, I would send it to him. In case you want to review it.
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