bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Jun 08, 2014 - 11:06 |
 
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Alternative juggernaut: Any non skull result may be swapped for a push. (Including pow, both down, defender stumbles.)
Please note that alternative juggernaut does not counter wrestle, stand firm, or fend. I firmly believe that juggernaut should not counter wrestle and fend, as it compliments killstack too easily. I think juggernaut should be a surfing skill not a killstack toolbox. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jun 08, 2014 - 11:24 |
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I agree about fend and wrestle, it shouldnt counter a counter. But the rest I don't like. It's main use is meant to be for blitzing big guys like mino etc.. to protect them from lack of block. So leave the skill as is and remove the counter wrestle and fend is the way to go imo. |
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GronxWild
Joined: Jan 22, 2012
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Jun 08, 2014 - 11:26 |
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jarvis_pants
Joined: Oct 30, 2008
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Didnt realise jugger was OP why the nerf? |
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"May Nuffle have mercy on your rolls." - St.Basher |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Jun 08, 2014 - 11:33 |
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I see little point countering stand firm for the following reasons:
- Stand firm is not overpowered at all.
- Side step counters frenzy, so Stand firm is allowed to do the same.
- Stand firm must be spammed in order to counter anything, much like fend vs killstack. Principal should be the same, no double standard. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Jun 08, 2014 - 11:36 |
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| jarvis_pants wrote: | | Didnt realise jugger was OP why the nerf? |
I would not call it a nerf. The skill gains tons of use with my proposal. It is a nerf that cant counter, but would make surfing much more efficient with it. Plus as per suggestion it works on block action too, not just on blitz. So it is a different animal, not a nerfed one. (Garions suggestion would nerf, of course, as he would take away from it, and would give nothing in return.) |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jun 08, 2014 - 11:38 |
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Juggernaut does need a nerf. Making it cancel wrestle and fend is really dumb , there should never be counters for counters. Allowing it to cancel stand firm is fine. Obviously on its own it's not op but it does make cpomb even more powerful and sensible people should have one cpomb block tackle juggernaut player for blitzing with. Means they can pick of players that pose a threat to them far to easily. It also makes fend an even more pointless skill than it already is. It's just bad game design, it should never have been this way, and the skill description is clunky as hell at the moment. |
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GronxWild
Joined: Jan 22, 2012
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Jun 08, 2014 - 12:47 |
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you guys should try to learn to play instead of trying to change the skills XDD |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Jun 08, 2014 - 12:55 |
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Nerfing skills that aren't ever chosen is poor game design. Jugs is fine, rather could do with a boost. Problems lie with other skills. Overfixing isn't the solution and changing Jugs doesn't accomplish anything except for it to be chosen less than it already is.
EDIT: As for fend, it could probably do with a boost. Personally I'd like to see something like taunt&fend -> the coach of the blocked player decides whether or not to follow up.
But hard to explain from a fluff point of view. |
Last edited by Wreckage on %b %08, %2014 - %13:%Jun; edited 2 times in total |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jun 08, 2014 - 13:01 |
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Bottom line is there should never be counters to counters. It's dumb. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Jun 08, 2014 - 13:02 |
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@Wreckage
I agree the principal, but I don't see the proposal as a nerf. As the skill will be useful on ALL BLOCKS, not just on BLITZ makes it intriguing. I believe that I actually empower the skill in spite of the takeaway of counters. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Jun 08, 2014 - 13:05 |
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I would combine grab with juggs somehow.
Both of them are nice to have, but never really worth taking. |
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Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Jun 08, 2014 - 13:08 |
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| bghandras wrote: | @Wreckage
I agree the principal, but I don't see the proposal as a nerf. As the skill will be useful on ALL BLOCKS, not just on BLITZ makes it intriguing. I believe that I actually empower the skill in spite of the takeaway of counters. |
Counterskills create an imbalance in games. It's not good to have them. But if you go down that road you might as well have many many counter skills because it gives options for handling extreme builds.
Jugs only works on blitzes, that is a huuuuuge disadvantage for a skill. Making it counter some stuff makes it barely just about useable.
But if you want to give it the ability to work on blocks too, we're talking. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jun 08, 2014 - 13:13 |
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They might see more use if po wasn't so broken. Maybe people would take grab and juggs more often as part of a kill stack then, then we would see how silly juggernaut is in its current incarnation. Juggernaut for me is primarily meant to be a big guy skill only anyway really, to help minos, snow trolls and ratogres out when blitzing. I don't mind the turns everything into a push thing though, as long as counters to counters are removed I'd be happy. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Jun 08, 2014 - 15:39 |
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| Wreckage wrote: | | bghandras wrote: | @Wreckage
I agree the principal, but I don't see the proposal as a nerf. As the skill will be useful on ALL BLOCKS, not just on BLITZ makes it intriguing. I believe that I actually empower the skill in spite of the takeaway of counters. |
Counterskills create an imbalance in games. It's not good to have them. But if you go down that road you might as well have many many counter skills because it gives options for handling extreme builds.
Jugs only works on blitzes, that is a huuuuuge disadvantage for a skill. Making it counter some stuff makes it barely just about useable.
But if you want to give it the ability to work on blocks too, we're talking. |
So do we agree then? |
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