JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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 Posted:
Jul 16, 2014 - 18:13 |
 
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Surfing gives you a great benefit to winning the match - they are out for the drive and that's fine. By making it brutal you are giving more attrition to bad/new coaches and we know that attrition is the root of all unhappiness in BB! |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jul 16, 2014 - 18:30 |
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But it's necessary. And the game is blood bowl so it's tough really. The problem isn't that attrition exists. It's the rate at which cpomb removes players from the pitch making some drives stupidly one sided. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Jul 16, 2014 - 18:39 |
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Well the issue might be different to everybody. The attrition issue to me is that there is a significant chance that the game is decided on dice rolls extremely early. With that said I would leave surfing as it is, except making it more accessible with juggernaut modification. That alone would be a huge-huge help. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jul 16, 2014 - 18:54 |
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Naa gotta disagree. If cpomb is nerfed which it should be then you need other ways of making up the attrition.
I have set surfs up for my opponent on many occasions in this edition so they will use their block and blitz action to push me in to the crowd. Thus opening up space for me to move in to etc, safe in the knowledge that my player is almost certainly safe in the reserves or ko box. To me this just isn't right. Getting pushed off the pitch should be one of the most brutal things you can do as it is entirely your own fault for getting surfed. It's also av neutral therefore fair. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Jul 16, 2014 - 19:02 |
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I understand you point, but I would add attrition to the following items before adding to surfing:
1. Fouling
2. Big guys (if those are more attractive, then more carnage comes)
3. Moving killer skills into agility and or mutation domain.
4. Changing the injury table.
5. Making permanent injury a function of the armor roll instead of the injury roll, thus treasury will be equal issue to high and low armored teams (While the in-match-protection is unchanged.) |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jul 16, 2014 - 19:16 |
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3,agility should not have killers skills, that's crazy. You would the make elves the fastest most agile and the best bashers.
4, please God no. It's been changed so many times already. It's fine. No need to mess with this.
5, I don't understand what you mean here. But attrition should not be even , elves should lose players more often than other races, because they are easiest to skill up. Players like tomb guardians should be hurt less often because they take forever to skill up. And so on.
1, yes deffo
2, how? I have my own solution to making big guys better. But the only way of achieving what you are describing is making big guy only skills. Which is unnecessary complications really. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Jul 16, 2014 - 19:24 |
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Lets start with No2. No need to make big guys only skills. Tools to achieve are:
- Adjust their price (Almost all could be 10k cheaper with the exception of tree and kroxigor)
- Making the adjustment to juggernaut as proposed in this thread, thus making their blocking less risky. Making juggernaut work outside of blitz would significantly improve them.
As Big guys start with at least one killer skill, their increased presence would increase attrition directly. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jul 16, 2014 - 19:30 |
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I agree with those ideas. But neither helps cause attrition |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Jul 16, 2014 - 19:36 |
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Of course it does. The more big guys, the more killing skills on the field. If big guys are crap, then nobody uses them. if those are OK, then people use them, so 1 more mighty blow (plus any skill they take) is on the pitch. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jul 16, 2014 - 19:44 |
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For me big guys are all meat shields nothing more. Chaos mino and Norse snow troll being the only exception. Decreasing their cost will have little to no effect on attrition anywhere other than rookie matches and even then it will be negligible. Although the decreased price along with the new Big Guy (instead of loner) negatrait would certainly help. Incase you missed that my rule is rookie big guys can only rr on a 6, with each skill they get they get that number reduced by 1 so 5 then 4 andso on until they hit legend where they are free to use rrs. Which helps make them effective at high tv for the first time since lrb 1.3 ( I think it was. Might be 2) and means there is actually incentive for taking them to legend for the first time ever. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Jul 16, 2014 - 20:04 |
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I say take Loner off BGs and Stars. Possibly make PO a BG only skill. |
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Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Jul 16, 2014 - 20:22 |
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| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | I say take Loner off BGs and Stars. Possibly make PO a BG only skill. |
The reason I love PO only on a Big Guy is that it really does require a no right answer decision - ST5 can tie up 2 ST3 players unassisted, that's good. But Piling On my be situationally superior of there is a juicy target who needs to die.
In most cases, Piling On presents very little opportunity cost to ST3 players because being on the ground is safer in general, you still occupy space and can't be moved without chain pushing, fouling is difficult to achieve if you're smart about where you use PO, and if you got lucky, Jump Up makes it almost trivial to consider the "out of position" part of Piling On. |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Jul 16, 2014 - 23:34 |
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| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | I say take Loner off BGs and Stars. Possibly make PO a BG only skill. |
Yes you are right, both of these changes would be good.
Combine with +1 to fouling and things are looking much better.
Christer should be directed to this thread and implement in the Box! |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Jul 16, 2014 - 23:44 |
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There was a thread whose conclusion was exactly this. I proposed there to make PO a big guy only skill, and majority did not opposed it. Christer was reading it, so he is supposed to be aware of that.
Perception is that he prefers the injury only clause, as that is a smaller change, but slowplaying it. (Or don't implement at all.) |
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xyon
Joined: Apr 19, 2005
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Jul 17, 2014 - 15:29 |
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| Garion wrote: |
The bottom line here is there should never ever in any game be counters to counters. |
that depends on how you define a counter. |
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| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | Whenever I think I might be wrong, I check with xyon to make sure I'm always right. |
| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | Hey Xyon you need to change your sig son, I never said anything vaguely like that! |
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