JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
|
 Posted:
Jul 10, 2014 - 16:31 |
 
|
The reduction to the NW and RR would be spot on. Nurgz having more expensive RR than Chaos doesn't make sense fluff wise or mechanically, and the NW are really overpriced without claw. 70TV saving at high TV isn't that big a deal, esp when their win% isn't even good at high TV and you are nerfing cpomb, the only good thing about Nurgz. |
_________________
Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
|
JMkiller
Joined: Jun 26, 2013
|
| Posted:
Jul 10, 2014 - 17:46 |
|
| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | The reduction to the NW and RR would be spot on. Nurgz having more expensive RR than Chaos doesn't make sense fluff wise or mechanically, and the NW are really overpriced without claw. 70TV saving at high TV isn't that big a deal, esp when their win% isn't even good at high TV and you are nerfing cpomb, the only good thing about Nurgz. |
And he is true again. |
_________________
�Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.�
? Arthur C. Clarke |
|
plasmoid
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2014 - 07:16 |
|
Hi Bghandras,
it occurs to me that best answer might be this:
In a CRP setting, your fix is probably fine. 60K linemen and 80K Blitzers sound good.
However, in a CRP+ setting, where (C)POMB has been curbed, Amazons ought to have an easier time staying alive, so I wouldn't want to grant them anything further.
Cheers
Martin |
|
|
Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2014 - 08:50 |
|
Yes, Claw hurts them too much in CRP. 
(Joke, etc...) |
_________________
GLN 17 is out!
 |
|
Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2014 - 08:52 |
|
And what about lizards Martin. Koadah has provided the stats that show they have the highest win percentage at low to mid tv.
Obviously I don't think they a nerf is needed but you are hitting wood elves with a nerf bat while lizards are performing better ? Or are the stats you post just a smoke screen and really you just make the changes you want? Which is fine as they're your house rules, but if the stats are moot anyway it'd be best to remove them from your pages too. |
_________________
Last edited by Garion on %b %11, %2014 - %09:%Jul; edited 1 time in total |
|
bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2014 - 09:28 |
|
| plasmoid wrote: | Hi Bghandras,
it occurs to me that best answer might be this:
In a CRP setting, your fix is probably fine. 60K linemen and 80K Blitzers sound good.
However, in a CRP+ setting, where (C)POMB has been curbed, Amazons ought to have an easier time staying alive, so I wouldn't want to grant them anything further.
Cheers
Martin |
This is close enough for me to sign off as an agreement. 
@Lizards: I agree that lizards are ridiculously powerful early, and then fade. The fading is connected to the overpriced skinks, and the sauri who are hard do skill. I doubt you could balance the long term issues without making the skinks cheaper, but that would make them even more powerful early. You could increase the price of the sauri then, which could nerf their short term power, as good lizard rosters start with more sauri than skink.
That would give us 90k sauri, and 50k skink. Starting roster would then cost
1 Kroxi 140
6 sauri 6*90=540
4 skink 4*50=200
2 rerolls 2*60=120
Total of 1000k
So the starting roster is intact, but cost 20k more, thus harder to get apo in 2nd game in progressional league, and would eliminate 20k worth of skill in tabletop non progressional where skills are limited by costs. |
_________________
 |
|
plasmoid
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2014 - 13:36 |
|
Hi Bghandras,
I quite agree with your lizardman solution, and I'm thinking it could be an interesting project to do a more thorough repricing. Perhaps we should start a new thread.
First step: we'd need to know, where FUMBBLers generally think each team is powerwize, at low, middle and high TV play.
After that, I think a lot of good Work could be done with simple repricing, done either on the fly or according to some general rules.
For example, I generally think that being ST2 ought to be 10K cheaper than it currently is. Human catchers. Skinks. All the stunties.
At the same time, I believe the big blocker types get 20K off for AG3 to AG2, and a further 20K off for AG2 to AG1. That last one should be 10K (IMO). Which coincidentally would have made Saurii 90K. Where they belong (IMO).
Cheers
Martin |
|
|
plasmoid
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2014 - 13:38 |
|
@Kam:
| Quote: | | Yes, Claw hurts them too much in CRP |
Just for the record, in CRP+ the nerf to killstack is mainly a nerf to PiOn.
Cheers
Martin |
|
|
plasmoid
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2014 - 13:49 |
|
Hi Garion,
| Quote: | And what about lizards Martin. Koadah has provided the stats that show they have the highest win percentage at low to mid tv.
Obviously I don't think they a nerf is needed but you are hitting wood elves with a nerf bat while lizards are performing better ? Or are the stats you post just a smoke screen and really you just make the changes you want? Which is fine as they're your house rules, but if the stats are moot anyway it'd be best to remove them from your pages too. |
If you're coming on strong like that perhaps you should read what's on the site. There's a pretty thorough description of the stats I use.
My personal experience is that Lizards are strong starters. And strong in tournaments. The data I have support that, but not that they are 'too' strong.
I use the old box data because they represent(ed) a huge metagame, which is the same as on Cyanide. I've not examined the latest Box-tweaks, but they are Unique to Box, and hence of less interest to me - (I can't try to encompass any metagame that anyonbe comes up with).
However, the other thing is that the new data that Koadah provided isn't very plentiful. It does put Lizards outside of tier 1 (which may or may not be a local metagame thing) - but the statistical uncertainty means that, as far as I can tell, Dark Elfs, Amazon and Necro - yes Necro - could all be above them.
Cheers
Martin |
|
|
bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2014 - 13:49 |
|
@Plasmoid
If you need my view, i am very open to do any pricing exercise.
I generally agree with you assertion. Although I see little difference between ag2 and ag1. It is hard to formulate any hard rule on players as you need to price synergy, as well. |
_________________
|
|
plasmoid
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2014 - 14:00 |
|
Hi PurpleChest,
thanks for the welcome.
As I've stated before my life all too rarely permits me to play a game in one sitting. That's why I play by email when I do play. Over the last year my Work conditions have become harsher, providing me with even less time for gaming. Sigh.
That - and I'd need to learn the client first.
I'd be perfectly happy to play you on pbem, but I suspect you'd have the same problem with the client. It is admittedly cludgey. But come to the Danish Open in 2015, and I'd be thrilled to play you. Danish Open 2014 was a hoot 
Thanks for the advice. I will explain the names better. And as Koadah has already stated, I could do a page split, so the NTBB stuff is on a page of it's own. I'm not sure what else I could reasonably be asked to do. I do explicitly state the difference in the first paragraph - as well as a few other Places. And before the actual rules stuff even starts, I state that 'It should be noted that the ex-BBRC involvement in the CRP+ part of these rules does not imply that the NTBB is somehow a semi-official project.'
So I could do a page split. Other suggestions are welcome. But I feel like we're nearing the line for what is reasonable.
Cheers
Martin
PS - I'm glad you're interested in some (but not all, I take it) of the CRP+ ideas. I think the Wizard, Concessions and SE rules are not crucial. And the Human/Khemri tweak would be nice, but not a must. IMO, the core of CRP+ is: Claw/PiOn nerf, Bank, +1 Fouling, Sneaky Git and Right Stuff anti-tackle. |
|
|
dode74
Joined: Aug 14, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2014 - 14:09 |
|
| Quote: | | I've not examined the latest Box-tweaks, but they are Unique to Box, and hence of less interest to me |
I think that's a mistake. If there are differences between metagames which change the performances of certain races then it becomes clear that the environment is influencing things and that the environment should be altered rather than the rules, or at least rules set to fit each environment. |
|
|
Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2014 - 14:17 |
|
| plasmoid wrote: | @Kam:
| Quote: | | Yes, Claw hurts them too much in CRP |
Just for the record, in CRP+ the nerf to killstack is mainly a nerf to PiOn.
Cheers
Martin |
I know, hence the next line of my last post. The reference to CPOMB simply reminded this cdorf coach complaining the lack of Cas against my flings despite the fact his main blitzer had Claws. I found that funny, even if that was not what you meant. |
_________________
GLN 17 is out!
|
|
bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2014 - 14:28 |
|
| dode74 wrote: | | Quote: | | I've not examined the latest Box-tweaks, but they are Unique to Box, and hence of less interest to me |
I think that's a mistake. If there are differences between metagames which change the performances of certain races then it becomes clear that the environment is influencing things and that the environment should be altered rather than the rules, or at least rules set to fit each environment. |
I fundamentally disagree. The rules should cover bbox too. Bbox may not be the in the heart of game design, but it is based on TV, which is a fundamental part of the design process. Bbox shows immediately if there is any balance issue. It does not create the problem, but it makes it visible. |
_________________
|
|
MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
|
| Posted:
Jul 11, 2014 - 14:31 |
|
Nerf Halflings 2014! They're OP vs Claw! |
|
|
|
|
| |
Gnomes are trash
Search
