Pentalarc
Joined: Mar 17, 2012
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 Posted:
Oct 15, 2014 - 08:03 |
 
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Thought about this earlier, when I was thinking why I first started playing in the box, and why I don't play there as often as I do in any other division.
After a while in ranked, you get to the point where you realize that certain of your teams are going to get almost no games. Dwarves, Chaos Dwarves, Orcs, and to a lesser extent, Nurgle and Chaos, have an extremely difficult getting matches in ranked.
There are reasons, but that's neither here nor there in the discussion at hand.
So, of the six box teams I have, they are made of those five races (chaos dwarves twice because one is on rebuild). Why? Well, mainly for me at least because I like playing all the different races, and that seems like the best way to get to play those more often.
But there's a problem. A good 75% of people, it seems, use those five teams in box almost exclusively. So the games are most often among those five teams.
To me, box would be at it's best in a situation where you could find yourself playing any team against any team.
How would that happen?
1) Players would make at least one team of every race.
2) Players would activate them all when activating for the box.
Of course, this could be done by agreement, but never will be. Perhaps some people doing it would help to a degree and would encourage others and bring move variety to the box, but I fear they would be outnumbered by people playing the same five teams, and would lose interest.
So that's why it is the impossible dream. But if there was ever a second box-like divison opened, I would suggest the GOlden Box, set up by the rules above. TO activate, someone must have at least one of each team, and no more than three of any one team, and when activating, all of their teams are activated to be paired.
Personally, I think that would be awesome, but it's probably just me. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Oct 15, 2014 - 08:13 |
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For me, I like this idea. However it isn't the first time it's come up. There would be too many problems.
Like you, I play every race. Sadly we are in the minority. There are coaches that absolutely loath playing some races/styles. Some so much so, they'd rather quit than play Elves or Zons for example.
Also coaches feel in the mood for certain games, or are on a downer/upper with certain teams. If they had to play all 24 teams, then they would rarely get to play games with a team they're excited about.
I also think this is not a direction that Christer would like to take BB.
So yeah, in theory it would be great. However sadly it wouldn't happen or work very well. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Oct 15, 2014 - 08:14 |
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It's called the Licker Argument. And we've heard it. 
More realistic (but still not likely) is you have say, four groups of teams and you have to activate one team from each group.
But it still fails.
As far as I can tell the diversity is not too bad among the younger teams. The problem with the argument is that chaos & Nurgle especially have the most to gain by going to high TV/great age. So, people will continue recycling their 'soft groups' teams so when your team gets big/old it will still be meeting mostly chaos/nurgle.
Plus a lot of people are one/two team coaches and would opt not to play Box rather than use a team/style that they are not in the mood for. |
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Last edited by koadah on %b %15, %2014 - %08:%Oct; edited 1 time in total |
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mr-maverick
Joined: Sep 10, 2010
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Oct 15, 2014 - 08:18 |
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In a perfect world, i could see this working, however... for a lot of people there are races that just aren't enjoyable e.g i really don't like playing with lizards and chaos dwarves. Being 'forced' into having these types of teams would put me off. How about a slight change and having to activate 1 bash (eg dwarf), 1 medium (eg humies) and 1 agile (eg elf) team each time? |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Oct 15, 2014 - 08:27 |
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I already do this for the most part. I rotate days for teams and do all of them on my Saturday. I am doing it because it's fun to get a lot of different experiences.
(Mortal!) Monday - Humans, Norse, Amazon, Dwarf
(TARRible!) Tuesday - Goblins, Halflings, Vampires, Ogre, Slann
(Wicked!) Wednesday - Chaos, Chaos Pact, Chaos Dwarves, Nurgle, Underworld
(Throw It!) Thursday - Dark Elves, High Elves, Pro Elves, Wood Elves
(Freaks of Nature!) Friday - Lizardmen, Khemri, Orcs, Undead, Necromantic
(Surprise!)Saturday - All Teams
(Speed!)Sunday - High Elves, Pro Elves, Wood Elves, Skaven
Do it too if you want or make up your own schedule. Either way be the change you want to see. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Oct 15, 2014 - 08:31 |
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| koadah wrote: | It's called the Licker Argument. And we've heard it.
More realistic (but still not likely) is you have say, four groups of teams and you have to activate one team from each group.
But it still fails.
As far as I can tell the diversity is not too bad among the younger teams. The problem with the argument is that chaos & Nurgle especially have the most to gain by going to high TV/great age. So, people will continue recycling their 'soft groups' teams so when your team gets big/old it will still be meeting mostly chaos/nurgle.
Plus a lot of people are one/two team coaches and would opt not to play Box rather than use a team/style that they are not in the mood for. |
Checking my grid, Chaos, Chaos Dwarves, Nurgle are my most against.
I have to admit that I enjoy playing my High Elves against the high tv chaos and nurgle because the team itself is decent enough and I have some fun players on it who aren't indispensable though. |
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Tarabaralla
Joined: Jul 24, 2010
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Oct 15, 2014 - 08:53 |
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When CRP was newly implemented and Piling On wasn't already a must-go (people still had a lrb4 mind-asset when it came to lying on ground) this was possible. And, even if you faced more bashers than elfballers, you didn't suffer that too much. Less clawmbpo attrition and more fun.
To me, forcing players to play something they aren't in the mood for will never work: even some races I love, like vampires, are just 'too much' on some occasion to play them.
On the other hand, a no-PO Blackbox division would work smoothly for the variety goal, but this is just my personal dream  |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Oct 15, 2014 - 09:07 |
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Yeah it wouldn't work, if I had to play with zons or ogres I would probably have to stop playing all together. They are just too boring in the case of zons , or utterly crap and pointless in the case of ogres. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Oct 15, 2014 - 09:11 |
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I doubt that we could support two Boxes. But I still think that we could do something different ONE DRAW IN FOUR.
CPOMB nerfs seem to be out.
Rock/Paper/Scissors/Special One draw in four?
The rule would need to be though that you couldn't activate a high TV CPOMB team unless you activated at least one of the others at similar TV.
ONE DRAW IN FOUR
It shouldn't be too confusing. A message on the activation page could warn people.
More teams = better matchups.
That still leaves three other draw for people to "always pile on"  |
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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
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vaclav
Joined: Mar 21, 2009
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Oct 15, 2014 - 09:20 |
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I got 17 teams/races and always activate them all, also i am in minority that tinks crp are better rules then lrb4. |
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Relezite
Joined: May 21, 2007
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Oct 15, 2014 - 09:31 |
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I think CRP is better than LBR4 too.
I just think people are inclined towards trying to grind the field out because its easier? gratifying? I dunno. But man, when the bash plan goes right those games are BORING to lose. |
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Tarabaralla
Joined: Jul 24, 2010
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Oct 15, 2014 - 09:33 |
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| Relezite wrote: | I think CRP is better than LBR4 too.
I just think people are inclined towards trying to grind the field out because its easier? gratifying? I dunno. But man, when the bash plan goes right those games are BORING to lose. |
Imho they're BORING to win too... |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Oct 15, 2014 - 09:41 |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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Oct 15, 2014 - 09:55 |
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I'd love it (and I've proposed the same before). I wouldn't even mind if such a division replaced both Ranked and Blackbox, leaving chosen games to an unranked or league format. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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| Garion wrote: | | Yeah it wouldn't work, if I had to play with zons or ogres I would probably have to stop playing all together. They are just too boring in the case of zons , or utterly crap and pointless in the case of ogres. |
Ogres crap? I heard they just won the Hubba 3rd division!  |
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