Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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Oct 23, 2014 - 11:55 |
 
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So Norse really suck bad. Their Major performance is abysmal. Some really good coaches have tried them in Majors, precious few ever got to a final round and there, invariably, they got crushed. Even in RRRs they don't perform that well. True, they are a decent enough starting roster and have a good chance against many teams. But even at Rookie level they are Scissors to the Rock that is Orcs, Dwarves, and to a lesser extent, Undead. Zons and Lizzies also beat them. And guess what races you will find a lot in Rookie level tourneys? Bingo.
Probably they can't be fixed. The signature idea of "Bash team with Block skill + AV7 + Frenzy" just can't be made to be competitive. And they aren't supposed to be Tier 1 at high TV. But with a little boost, maybe they can at least be made to be competitive at Rookie level, and a bit less hopeless at higher level? Of course this is completely irrelevant and speculative. But that's what the forums are for, isn't it? So here are my ideas:
1) Ulfs get Block skill at no cost. They were overpriced before. Block on all players is consistent with the team theme. With Frenzy and no Block they are too much of a liability at Rookie level.
2) Berserkers -10k cost. This is debatable, much like Human Blitzers. I would say that if the team isn't that strong at high TV, at least they should be cheap, meaning they don't bloat and are easy to replace.
3) Runners lose Dauntless, gain Sure Hands. The combo with AG access and Dauntless just sucks, you don't want to develop them into dedicated blitzers so what is the Dauntless for, then? With Sure Hands they can take Dodge on the first Skill and be a real asset, which also improves Rookie level performance.
4) Snow Troll gains Thick Skull at no cost. This makes the team a tiny bit less vulnerable. Arguably it should be +10k if you compare to Mino and Rat Ogre, but see above reasoning about at least being cheap, plus I'd argue he doesn't have M access (well he does already come with the most important one but shush).
5) Rerolls -10k cost. Brings them to 50k, same as Humans and Zons, which seems only fair.
And now comes Garion and tells me why this is bogus.  |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Oct 23, 2014 - 12:06 |
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I won't say Bogus, more Why?
Norse are great at low to mid Tv. The changes you suggest don't address Norse's problem which is their blitzers and big guy all have frenzy, this much frenzy and its a negative, and sooo easy to stop their blitzers from blitzing just by sticking your players in a group so there is no one for them to hit for fear of being knocked over the following turn or leading to a half dice block with your second hit. Even on kick off you can stop them using their MB PO players on your LoS men just by sticking men behind them.
The easiest way to fix them would be make their big guy basically an Ogre with Claw then they have a way to blitz without frenzy, but isn't that the point in their team???
RRs shouldn't be 50k as that is meant to represent team cohesion and organisation, a team full of frenzied nutters doesn't say this to me.
All this said - I think Norse could potentially be built to be very competitive in this edition if you can be bothered to try. You just need 1 big guy 2 runners the rest linemen, then build them up using stats and doubles. That way you don't have to worry about the negatrait of Frenzy, but it would take a long long time and a lot of patience. to get 3 or MB PO linemen and the rest blodge guard, with your cpomb troll and skilled runners.
You are spot on about the big guy pricing mind, all of them are horribly over priced in this edition.
there you go is that what you wanted  |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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I saw the thread title appear in Recent Topics and though straight away 'I bet that's Vermi'
It's not something I've ever looked at, but with a glance at the roster in the interest of discussion here's what I'd go for:
1) Beserkers +20k. Gain 1 Ma and Av
2) Ulfwerner -10k. No change
3) Lose Throwers completely
4) Make Runner 0-4 and add P access. Swap Dauntless for Fend
5) Reduce Re-rolls to 50k.
Why the difference? I'm glad you asked
1) They only have 2 blitzers and they are the key players so should be better. They should certainly at least be quicker
2) You are correct that they are overpriced, but I think starting with Block wouldn't fit the 'wild' player they are supposed to be
3&4) Throwers are useless mainly and 2 more runners with P access would be much better. The P access is the only reason you'd take a thrower
5) For the same reasons you said 
edit: Garion makes a good point about the re-rolls though |
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PaddyMick
Joined: Jan 03, 2012
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Oct 23, 2014 - 12:14 |
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I like it, especially giving Ulfs Block.
Instead of Beserkers being cheaper though, give them Piling On free  |
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Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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Oct 23, 2014 - 12:16 |
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@ Garion: Heh, good enough. Though if you don't want the Frenzy then why play Norse to begin with?
Min-maxed Norse in the Box work quite well, I'll grant that.
Not sure I buy your argument about re-roll cost. The Regen teams having 140k re-rolls says "TV balancing" to me. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Oct 23, 2014 - 12:21 |
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| Verminardo wrote: |
Min-maxed Norse in the Box work quite well, I'll grant that.
Not sure I buy your argument about re-roll cost. The Regen teams having 140k re-rolls says "TV balancing" to me. |
You try training a bunch of zombies
Though I think Nurgle should be 60k because chaos are.
| Verminardo wrote: | | @ Garion: Heh, good enough. Though if you don't want the Frenzy then why play Norse to begin with? |
Exactly my point
Also on the Snow Trolls - if the BBRC hadn't seperated FA and DP (god knows why this was done  ) then you have your protection rather than sticking Thick Skull on him. |
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Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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Oct 23, 2014 - 12:33 |
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@ Josh: The change on the Berserkers would certainly be a huge boost, though I don't really find it consistent with the fluff and the general idea of an "AV7 bash team". Though they gave AV8 to the Ulfs, too, so there you go.
Four Runners are interesting, the Thrower is most definitely useless (except for providing Leader). Not sure about the Fend, but my Sure Hands wouldn't make much sense with four Runners, I'll grant that.
@ Garion: Good point about FA. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Oct 23, 2014 - 12:44 |
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They do well in TT tourneys and low-mid TV. Most of the changes would make them even better at this range. The way to make teams better long term is better base stats and better skill access. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Oct 23, 2014 - 12:49 |
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Actually this has highlighted a valid point! Why do Zons get 50k rerolls?????? |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Oct 23, 2014 - 12:51 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | | Actually this has highlighted a valid point! Why do Zons get 50k rerolls?????? |
hmm interesting, never really thought about it, but you are absolutely right. They are Valkyries after all.
For those not in the know Valkyries were Norse women, they left the Norse settlements and made a home in Lustria where they learned Blood Bowl from adopting aspects of Lizardmen culture etc........ |
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T3mpano
Joined: Jul 17, 2014
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Oct 23, 2014 - 13:04 |
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Maybe 50k RR was part of the culture they learned?
BTW, is you ask me (a wood elf), block across the LoS regardless of AV7 is quite nifty.
You know, I'd also like to get my MA9 catchers back (and they take the sprint away) |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Oct 23, 2014 - 13:05 |
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| T3mpano wrote: | | Maybe 50k RR was part of the culture they learned? |
From a race with 60k rrs? |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Oct 23, 2014 - 13:06 |
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Oh and I actually preferred lrb 4 Norse! Ok they were even weaker, but it was a shame they were removed, instead of left as an alternative. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | They do well in TT tourneys and low-mid TV. Most of the changes would make them even better at this range. The way to make teams better long term is better base stats and better skill access. |
That's the lines I was working along.
Did LRB4 Norse have 50k re-rolls? |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Oct 23, 2014 - 13:16 |
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The reason Amazons Linewomen were 40k and the reason RR were 50k was that Chet wanted to make a broken overpowered team. |
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Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
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