Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 14, 2003 - 06:59 |
 
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From the poll, it seems that a number of you concerns about implementing a bounty system, but the majority still want to see it implemented. What I would like to do is get a list of those concerns, and see if we can't manage to address them to everyones satisfaction. So please let me know what questions you have or problems you see, and we can determine the best course to take with this. |
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AlphaX
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 14, 2003 - 07:17 |
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Well... how about creating a team you don't care about. Play 10 games or what ever, and then use the team to fund bounties. Course I dont think it would be abuse to use the bounty system to post bounties on players who stand to be in your way (for example they are above your player on the top 10 list.) Or put a bounty against a player because you don't like their name.
A bounty should not be collected if the guy dies tripping on the field, or is pushed off the pitch. (The fans killed him not the team!)
Also, coaches who have bounties against their team members could take games to kill the guy and collect money. I could just see a low TR team get lots and lots of cash by making back room deals... It could become a money laundering scheme. |
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cjohnsto
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 14, 2003 - 07:26 |
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AND when a team retires all bouties posted by that team should be removed. Can we put bounties on niggles or better too? Maybe to stop abuse there should be a handling fee to get some of the money out of the system, say 10%. Otherwise teams use that system to keep there tr down and get more money from matches. |
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odi
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 14, 2003 - 08:25 |
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Well, I think that to place a bounty on a player:
You should have had to play that team during something like your last five to ten matches. With the team that is paying for the bounty. Otherwise people will pay for the bounty, with another team they have, one with a lower tr, which can get the money together more easily. But if that's not possible to implement, then just a bounty system... |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 14, 2003 - 11:25 |
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1st. The 10 game minimum should make it more trouble than it is worth to make a new team with the sole purpose of placing a bounty. That number could go up a bit perhaps though.
2. You can't legislate intent. You can place a bounty for any reason, it's imposible to know anyway.
3. Depends. If you push the play into the crowd, you still killed him, same as if you pushed him onto train tracks. Same could be said of diving tackles, or using tackle to make him fail a dodge. For simplicities sake, I would say any game where the player dies the opponent gets the money.
4. You can't play your own teams, and deaths are not predictable enough to make side deals. These two things seem to me to underhanded dealings to a minimum.
5. Bounties would be permanent once placed. I see no reason that money paid as a bounty for a team should be removed just because they retire before the bounty is collected. As for any handling fee, the simple fact that deaths are not easy to get should keep abuses to an extreme minimum.
6. I like that idea. Although, for simplicities sake, I'd probably want to make it that you can only place a bounty against a team you have played at some point in your career. This helps keep it to real grudges without making it hard to calculate. |
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The Finishing Touch |
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Mnemon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 15, 2003 - 01:55 |
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Personally I would really hate a system like that being (re-)introduced. The players targeted would most likely be those that have developed a fair set of skills/gained a lot of spps. Naturally those are the ones that one (atleast I) grows more "attached" to. I can somewhat live with loosing a player like that in a reguar game - I would be pissed if somebody would only kill that player for the money - not because he is a menace in the current game.
I know my father hates if he looses his towers when playing chess. Likewise I love my horses. If I would want to piss him off I'd specifically target his towers. Of course he is good with them and bases his play around them, so I have to take them out at times. Naturally we don't play chess against each other a lot anymore.
Point is - I voted No, not because I think it would open a lot of abuse, but because it personally would make me enjoy playing a lot less. Take RiC [Runs in Circles] for example, my "stunty" mino. Yes - he looks like a killing machine. Yes, he has a lot of cassualties. Yet - I do not play him in an aggressive style - he is much to dear to me to go out rushing in to block the other team. His role in the team mostly is to toss around haflings. At least that is what I would want him to do. Most of his latest cassualties come from the fact that people consider him a thread and put some stunty next to him attempting to "safe" their Big Guys. I love the bugger - dearly, and try to keep him away from danger. I _am_ afraid for him whenever playing actually, and willingly let any other member of the team die just to have the apo ready for him in case he needs it. Seeing the amount of fouling that goes on already in stunty (the one reason I dropped out of that stunty competition and never will enter another), I definitely would not be able to safe him if several people were playing me with the sole aim to take him out, to get the money.
I want to enjoy bloodbowl - and despite the name of the game I enjoy a game where both parties try to win "i.e. score more TDs than the opponent" more than an all out bash party, just for the sake of it, something a bounty system would promote. I oppose a bounty system purely out of selfish reasons - seeing that I would spent some evenings (days/weeks?) severly pissed off/frustrated/angry/sad because somebody took out a beloved set of data on the internet, just to gain some virtual money and satisfy the unreasonable need of revenge some other person has because my bits and bytes hurt some of hers/his  . |
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SkiJunkie
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 15, 2003 - 02:53 |
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Why not make it optional. When you create a team you can specify if you want them part of the bounty system. Only teams that are part of the bounty system can collect the reward, or post a reward. And of course, you can only post rewards on players belonging to team which are part of the bounty system. That shouldn't be to hard to track. You should only be able to join or decline to join at team creation. |
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--SkiJunkie
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Chappy
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 15, 2003 - 03:20 |
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| Quote: |
Why not make it optional. When you create a team you can specify if you want them part of the bounty system. Only teams that are part of the bounty system can collect the reward, or post a reward.
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I like that idea. Also maybe have a bounty cap, such as only 2 bounties out per team. I'd hate to see every good or dangerous player have a bounty on them, but many do deserve it... |
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r3
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 15, 2003 - 07:05 |
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Ugh. That's all we need, another reason to further orient this league toward the bashy style of play. Dwarves, CDs and Chaos are all anybody seems to be creating right now, and everybody and their mother has taken to slapping Piling On onto anything that moves (Mnemon's even talking about a PO Gobbo when he gets another doubles skill roll).
The point of this is that _I_ like to play dodgy teams that move the ball effectively, with a couple of bashers in there to clear lanes. Everybody has what they like, and that's what I like. It's not better or worse than any other style of play, it's just one of several, but I don't think that one particular style of play (namely Dirty Player and PO/RSC) should have an entire subsystem built around it that would benefit those teams at the expense of all other styles of play. The cost to all teams that are not oriented in this way would be both in players killed and in the money they spend to have opponents killed, creating cash-rich assassin teams. We've already got plenty of those, thanks.
Bottom line is: if you want Pikachu (or Mo or Rotten Git) dead, get it done yourself. I see limited benefit at best from this system for the vast majority of people who play here. |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 15, 2003 - 07:17 |
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Well, have you looked at the poll? It seems a significant majority want to see a bounty system, but there is a vocal minority who don't. What would you suggest to balance that? We have one suggestion to allow you to opt out of bounties in some way, do you have another? |
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Looking to get your minis painted? Look no further.
The Finishing Touch |
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Pardus
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 15, 2003 - 07:42 |
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my solution:
give a bonus server side to the team that wins...
cash!!!
maybe 20000 a win.
10000 (each) for a tie.
i'm not good at explaining things... but think about it for a little while... |
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cjohnsto
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 15, 2003 - 07:58 |
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How about 1spp for every member of the winning team. I would prefer that. But cash would help premote winning. |
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Korhil
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 15, 2003 - 08:34 |
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Its hard to promote winning cos most people seam to see that as the opposite to having fun.
You even get people that happily say that they will try kill a team when they are losing in hope it means they will lose the next one.
Most people say the ranking system means nothing, it has problems, but when its said to be worth nothing that doesnt really inspire anyone new to worry about it.
Cheaters dont get kicked out, they might have a few teams deleted, but they come back and play on, often with some coaches never knowing about who they are.
There was a thread about 'sportsmanship', but sportsmanship can only apply to something where people have the same goal (winning usually), here thats not the case.
Basically the majority of people arent interested in playing to win and are more interested in killing a team off that beats them, but not fixing there coaching so that they dont lose as much, until that view changes, there isnt much hope.
---Korhil
PS The idea of giving coaches something more for winning is sorrta interesting, but the rules themselves do that, you get +1 to your FF roll, and +1 to your winnings. Since we seam to be in favour of adding more for people that arent as interested in winning, I guess adding something more like that brings it back in line... but then we're changing the game itself from Blood Bowl... |
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odi
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 15, 2003 - 11:33 |
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I personally think that grudges are part of the spirit of Blood Bowl, it's an evil way for anybody, just to get "even" after his team has been humiliated. Personally I don't like it either, when a star player of mine gets killed, but it happens, and then all I can do is start to rebuild another one. I think some people are getting too attached to their star players. This is a dangerous sport, most players don't retire without havin a couple of serious injuries or having been killed 
Besides, I know that if/when a bounty system is set up, I'll put a price on Janzki's Urho Kaleva, I don't like that dauntless Elf runner humiliating my Ro, and he'll pay just as much to have Silent Bob silenced for ever |
Last edited by odi on %b %15, %2003 - %12:%Apr; edited 1 time in total |
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Calador
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 15, 2003 - 11:58 |
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A bounty-system could be fun, but I don't think it'd work.
My old and trusty Undeads (not from FUMBBL, but from the boardgame) had 1 problem. They earned too much money because, in more than 100 matches, I never lost a player (a trait which undeads are famous for). I accumulated more and more money, increasing my TR with only one way to lower it... Buy a new player and make him assistant coach.
With a bounty system, I would suddenly have a completely new way of getting rid of all the excess cash without getting any TR for it. I would simply put out a bounty on someone (most likely every 1-turner I see). Not because I want to, but simply because it's a quick way to get rid of the gold I don't need. |
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