AlphaX
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Apr 16, 2003 - 07:38 |
 
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you dont have to field all your players. so who is to say the player with a bounty will ever be fielded unless you are playing a coach who you want to be able to collect the bounty.
one thing is for sure - the client needs to let you decide to use RSC/DP/MB on injury roll. It does not make sense to modify a stun to a KO when you want to kill someone. Keep them on the field till you get an actual injury roll. |
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cjohnsto
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 16, 2003 - 08:39 |
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But what problem would that be fixing? You already don't have to worry about bounties being an effective method of transfering money between teams, because it is quite hard to to get an actual kill result, and you can't play a coach twice in a row, so the odds are just as good of some other coach claiming the money you were hoping to transer. Does this solve another problem I am missing?
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Well i think there maybe the problem of too much money remaining within the "system". i.e. i have a team get trashed but i get heaps of cash but think it isn't worth continuing the team so i put all my cash into a bounty. Simply put the average amount of cash that teams will recieve will go up.
Now you have cash that would have been:
1) Thrown away to reduce team ratings.
2) Wasted due to retiring teams.
3) Teams now generate more cash due to lower team ratings.
But having 15 games minimum will help. A handling fee will also help, and how about 10% goes to the team that loses the player just to be nice  . |
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EvolveToAnarchism
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 16, 2003 - 11:37 |
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I strongly object to the whole idea of bounties in the OPEN division. There are many reasons to be opposed but I think the most important and as yet unmentioned reason to oppose bounties is PRECEDENT.
The one thing I most enjoy about the OPEN division is that it tries to stick to the core LRB rules. And this is the reason why I think bounties would be a VERY BAD move. It sets a precedent, that if popular opinion supports something then we will deviate from the core LRB rules.
If I could dream up some clever idea and get public opinion on my side, should such a change get implemented? For example, I really like well-written and entertaining match reports. Wouldn't it be a great idea to give people's teams some extra cash for writing up entertaining match reports? How about if we implement a match report rating system, where if they score a certain number of points, they get a certain amount of money. It's not likely that this idea would be supported (that's why it's in the ANARCHIST not OPEN).
But I do fear things like player transfers, side bets on games, hiring retired players, allies and any other such things that aren't in the LRB being implemented in the OPEN division.
I'm open to creativity and variations in the rules but I believe those things don't belong in the OPEN division. If you want proof that I like these things check out the ANARCHIST group that I've set up. We've got challenges, contests and artistic impression points just to name a few experiments. But imposing my personal preferences or the majority's opinion on the OPEN division would ruin what I thought was one of the key principles of the OPEN division: consistency with the CORE LRB.
Principles sometimes have to take precedence over public opinion. That's why I am an anarchist and believe we should be moving away from majority rule, instead replacing it with consensus-based decision making. After all, how would democracy handle 3 wolves and 1 sheep deciding what's for dinner?
As Always,
Evolve To Anarchism
http://www.anarchismfaq.org
P.S. I really don't think bounties will be abused much or even used that much, so I'm not strongly opposed to it because of how it might be implemented. There are already many great suggestions for combating potential abuses and I believe that it will be well thought out before it is ever implemented (preferably in another division). |
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Frankenstein
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 16, 2003 - 17:11 |
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Evo convinced me entirely. 
So subtract one vote from pro bounty and add one to contra bounty! |
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Frankenstein
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 16, 2003 - 17:12 |
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Evo convinced me entirely.
So subtract one vote from pro bounty and add one to contra bounty! |
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Zy-Nox
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 16, 2003 - 18:45 |
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Well who said it *had* to be in open.......Stick it in for Div-x/stunty/ sides
That way Open stays to the core rules and DivX can get a chance to be a bit more different( other than just having more teams)
My only major concern is the amount that should be put on a bounty it should be relative to the players spps ie I remember in the old system I nailed a wardancer with 50+ points .... I got 10K  |
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AlphaX
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 16, 2003 - 23:57 |
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| Mirascael wrote: | Evo convinced me entirely.
So subtract one vote from pro bounty and add one to contra bounty! |
Since when do you get two votes?
EVO has a good point. However, many things about the open league are not at all like LBR. Handicap, a few skills, snotlings not in open and written challenges - to name a few. How about concensus? maybe there should be a seperate vote to see what leagues bounty should be allowed in. It would be meaningless in ladder, and likely most desirable in open just to inspire people to try to kill off a few of EVO's players. Or, rather get games for his TR 400+ Dark Elves. |
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AsperonThorn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 17, 2003 - 00:49 |
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Well said Evo. I, of course, disagree completely, and will debate your two points. The first being:
| EvolveToAnarchism wrote: |
The one thing I most enjoy about the OPEN division is that it tries to stick to the core LRB rules. And this is the reason why I think bounties would be a VERY BAD move. It sets a precedent, that if popular opinion supports something then we will deviate from the core LRB rules.
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A bounty system does nothing to deviate, add to, or change anything in the LRB as stated on page 38, under "Blood Bowl Leagues."
| Quote: | | A coach may not swap money, players or anything else between the teams that he runs. For example, he may not make a ‘special loan’ from one of his teams to another, or swap players between the teams, and so on. Note that a coach can carry out such actions between one of his teams and a team run by another coach (assuming the other coach agrees, of course!), he just can’t do it between two of his own teams. |
A bounty system is simply a conditional gift between two coaches, in which the second coach is not known until the condition is met. The only situation in which would violate the LRB would be for a coach to collect a bounty placed by another of his own teams. Simply, I don't think that should be allowed anyway so that would still stay within the LRB.
And to debate the second point.
| EvolveToAnarchism wrote: |
Principles sometimes have to take precedence over public opinion. That's why I am an anarchist and believe we should be moving away from majority rule, instead replacing it with consensus-based decision making. After all, how would democracy handle 3 wolves and 1 sheep deciding what's for dinner? |
Princibles ARE simply public opinion. They may be an old opinion, or a long standing opinion, but they are opinion nonetheless. They are not genetically ingrained.That is why I believe in Democracy. I think we should be moving away from this need to be touchy, feely, please everyone "principle," because it simply cannot be done. How would a consensus come to be with 2 sheep and 2 wolves? They would starve. People are given rights, and without infringing on those rights, the majority opinion should pass. In this case, you have the right to not play any particular team.
To Paraphrase Mr. Klipp, "It is an open league, if you think people are trying to only kill you, then don't play them." To apply this to 3 wolves and 1 sheep, the wolves may decide that lamb is for dinner, but at least the sheep can be content that HE won't be dinner, and he doesn't have to eat the lamb that was. More than likely, the Wolves will end up having Wolf for dinner, simply because lambs will be harder to find. |
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Nightbird
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 17, 2003 - 01:31 |
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Hehe....this is all so entertaining to me!
Go both sides!
Stick it to the other side! |
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AlphaX
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 17, 2003 - 18:42 |
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Hey, screw the bounty system - just allow coaches to give other coaches money -- and players. It is on page 38 so it has to be right. |
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Frankenstein
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 17, 2003 - 21:56 |
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| AlphaX wrote: | | Mirascael wrote: | Evo convinced me entirely.
So subtract one vote from pro bounty and add one to contra bounty! |
Since when do you get two votes? |
Logical reasoning, dude!
I voted Pro. Now I'd vote contra.
So my pro-vote is invalid and becomes con.
2 votes would have been subtract 2 and add 2. |
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AlphaX
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 19, 2003 - 08:43 |
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| Mirascael wrote: | | AlphaX wrote: | | Mirascael wrote: | Evo convinced me entirely.
So subtract one vote from pro bounty and add one to contra bounty! |
Since when do you get two votes? |
Logical reasoning, dude!
I voted Pro. Now I'd vote contra.
So my pro-vote is invalid and becomes con.
2 votes would have been subtract 2 and add 2. |
Ah, but your logic is flawed. You posted your message twice.
have a nice day.
AlphaX |
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odi
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 14, 2003 - 14:07 |
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OK, how about if you could opt to either to using bounties or not, like in the ranking system. If a team opts for bounties, it can start placing bounties after it has played, say 10 games. But bounties can only be placed against teams, which have also opted to use bounties. If a player who has a bounty on his head is killed by a non bounty team, the money is lost. It's been a long time since I read this thread, so propably some one already had this idea. |
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Azurus
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 14, 2003 - 14:46 |
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I don't think a bounty system would benefit bashy teams any more than it does now. I do however agree with Korhil's point that there are far too many players who simply aren't concerned with scoring TDs and winning games. I have played a few coaches who will quite happily ignore one of my players in a scoring position if they can instead lend an assist to maim one of my linemen.
The thing is only 1of 6 cas are deaths, so there's no gaurantee of getting a player killed whatevere you do. For this reason i strongly disagree with the idea of giving bounties for niggles or stat drops, a chaos team could easily earn 200k a game by playing against a high TR, vulnerable elf or skaven side, which is plain daft.
I did vote YES for bounties, and would do so again, but it isn't perfect, and I think it could possibly be kept in a seperate division. Calador's point is a good one. I have an 11-game undead team with 230k in the treasury simply because i've run out of things to spend it on. I don't think it would be a problem however. Getting my TR back down to a representative level would be great, and if other teams get richer from it, so much the better.
I think some people are missing the point that it isn't only bashy teams which kill players. My Dark Elves get mashed more against wood elves than against any other team. With a bit of careful strategy, a bounty could provide the cash these high-TR dodgers are always complaining that they don't have. And since a lot of weak teams avoid bashers anyway, surely there's no difference?
I know I've waffled randomly for most of this post, but my main idea is: PUT THE BOUNTY SYSTEM IN A NEW DIVISION, so as not to ruin any current teams.
If you've got this far, thanks for reading all my random ranting. Bye! |
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*This is a public safety announcement. Azurus is a cynical, sarcastic idiot. Please ignore any and everything he may say. Thank you for your attention.* |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 14, 2003 - 21:40 |
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I've gathered lots of good ideas on this subject, and have a plan in mind that I think most if not all will like and agree with. But, I won't have time to work on implementing it until after finals in a few more weeks. =) |
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