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Crook666



Joined: Oct 16, 2012

Post   Posted: Dec 27, 2020 - 09:32 Reply with quote Back to top

***Disclaimer***
Maybe this has been discussed in some previous forum thread, I haven't found it. Apologies if is redundant.

The fact is, since I came back to this website I have been reading about some imminent major changes in the Blood Bowl rules, this is called BB2020.

This is not a criticism (I don't know enough about the game to criticize), but just out of curiosity I would like to know.

Blood Bowl has a large number of people playing in the table top and online, and as far as I know is an old game. It seems to me (but I'm not an expert) that it works pretty good, so why going through all these changes and new rules, skills etc? Is it a commercial move, or is it something the players community has asked for? What is the general feeling of the community about this? Is this welcomed as a long awaited improvement that will make the game better, or as an imposition we could have lived better without? Also, when it will start, and how will it affect FUMBBL, especially the leagues and Secret League?

I know these are lot of question and probably the answers are already somewhere in this website, but I got a bit confused trying to figure them out, so if someone would reply it would be appreciated.

Thanks a lot, wish you all a good day.
C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Dec 27, 2020 - 10:31 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm no expert but from what I've picked up from here it very much commercially driven from Games Workshop.

*The official video games did better than expected to suggest there's a market

*There hasn't been a major update in a number of years so it was due

*GW have a very good year (possibly helped by lockdowns etc) so now is a good time to reinvigorate less supported products

*Updated rules and teams make it easier to justify a new starter box

*A degree of trying to align a bit with other products (I understand things like the new SSP pool system is common in their other products)

*GW seem to believe it will become more friendly to noobs (although I think this is a little contested)

I think it's fair to say reaction has been mixed but I think it's also fair to say the core games is still very similar....this isn't 'turning Tetris into a First Person Shooter'.

I think the majority on here agree that Fumbbl has to move to he new ruleset whatever their feeling on the rules themselves or it quickly becomes outdated, especially with the BB3 video game on the horizon.

The development team are working on this update. Given they only officially got sight of the new rules a few weeks ago, it will take a little longer to implement.

And we should always take the opportunity to give the Development Team and Christer the praise they deserve - because they are doing an amazing job
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 27, 2020 - 10:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Commercial.

IMO the game was just too wacky for the average gamer. It probably still is. Wink

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spubbbba



Joined: Jul 31, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 27, 2020 - 11:02 Reply with quote Back to top

This is an entirely commercial decision from GW. They have always been a miniature company and the rules they create are designed to sell more miniatures.

Blood Bowl is difficult as you only really need 16 models for a full team, compared to dozens or even hundreds for a AoS or 40K army. It's also harder to add new things to existing teams.

A revamping of the rules will help generate new interest and shake up the rules. The idea being to get new people into the game and others to try new teams, they are also adding some new teams but can only do that so often.

I consider this a good sign as it shows GW still see Blood Bowl as commercially viable. They had only a few teams for BB16 left to bring out, so could have just done that and then forgotten about the game again.

It has been a while since the rules had a major shakeup, I'd say the last time it was this big was the shift from LRB4 to 5. That also made huge changes to rules, skills and teams.

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ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 27, 2020 - 11:57 Reply with quote Back to top

spubbbba wrote:
This is an entirely commercial decision from GW. They have always been a miniature company and the rules they create are designed to sell more miniatures.

Blood Bowl is difficult as you only really need 16 models for a full team, compared to dozens or even hundreds for a AoS or 40K army. It's also harder to add new things to existing teams.

A revamping of the rules will help generate new interest and shake up the rules. The idea being to get new people into the game and others to try new teams, they are also adding some new teams but can only do that so often.

I consider this a good sign as it shows GW still see Blood Bowl as commercially viable. They had only a few teams for BB16 left to bring out, so could have just done that and then forgotten about the game again.

It has been a while since the rules had a major shakeup, I'd say the last time it was this big was the shift from LRB4 to 5. That also made huge changes to rules, skills and teams.


This is almost exactly what I came in to reply except that I actually think lrb4->lrb5 was more of a shuffle sideways compared to CRP/2016->2020. This is, to me, the biggest rules update since 3rd ed, but no matter how you want to shake it, it's new, it's different, and it's fresh.

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stej



Joined: Jan 05, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 27, 2020 - 12:05 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm surprised GW don't put together stadiums / dugouts / crowd models to bump up the number of things people would buy.
You may only need 16 players for a team, but you'll need a few 100 figures to make a good crowd
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 27, 2020 - 12:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Crowd would not be essential and people would not buy the models.
Stadia are nice to see but not practical to play a game.
Dugouts are not essential as well and would occupy playing space.
I don't think adding them would be a good move by GW, unless people get suddenly interested in BB-themed dioramas.
Crook666



Joined: Oct 16, 2012

Post   Posted: Dec 27, 2020 - 13:11 Reply with quote Back to top

Got it, thanks for the replies. On a side, it is good that they are still following up with their product and try to attract new players and guess we'll see soon how this will be received by the old ones. I'm particularly interested about trying the new mechanics to see how and how much they impact the game as I know it, and how and if they will level the gap between very skilled players and noobs (guess that won't change that much, a good player is a good player). Definitely curious about this. I met some coaches who told me that after the BB2020 release they won't play anymore, but I think after a while they will change their mind, after all it's better to learn than quit forever. Thanks again for the reply.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 27, 2020 - 13:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Crook666 wrote:
I met some coaches who told me that after the BB2020 release they won't play anymore, but I think after a while they will change their mind, after all it's better to learn than quit forever. Thanks again for the reply.


As far as Fumbbl is concerned, under the new rules, the game may simply not "work" for some people anymore.

But yes, they may come back if nothing else fills the gap.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 27, 2020 - 14:27 Reply with quote Back to top

The mechanics will not bridge the gap between noobs and good coaches, they just force everybody to play low TV (good coaches will just switch to play top tier 1 teams, as developing them to high TV is not viable anymore).
The good changes in my opinion are the Kick Off table events and Clawmb stack nerf.
There will be less variety of races played, I suspect.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 27, 2020 - 14:38 Reply with quote Back to top

The main issue with noobs was they couldn't handle "bad luck". The same goes for some Legends Twisted Evil

The main issue with Fumbbl is that there are not enough coaches for "fair" matches. It remains to be seen how much the new rules will help.

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C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Dec 27, 2020 - 15:32 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't believe all the "good" coaches will switch to top tier teams only. The Ultra competitive coaches will probably but the genuinely great coaches I expect will want to take on the challenge of success with the lesser races. Much like many of them do already
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 27, 2020 - 15:39 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, some good coaches play lesser races due to Box Trophy or to fill the grid.
There will be less incentive to play Chaos, Nurgle and Vampires with BB2020 rules.
Grasshugger17



Joined: Jun 29, 2020

Post   Posted: Dec 27, 2020 - 16:02 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Well, some good coaches play lesser races due to Box Trophy or to fill the grid.
There will be less incentive to play Chaos, Nurgle and Vampires with BB2020 rules.


For some players. For others, there's more incentive. You're only looking at it from your point of view.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 27, 2020 - 16:05 Reply with quote Back to top

Grasshugger17 wrote:
MattDakka wrote:
Well, some good coaches play lesser races due to Box Trophy or to fill the grid.
There will be less incentive to play Chaos, Nurgle and Vampires with BB2020 rules.


For some players. For others, there's more incentive. You're only looking at it from your point of view.


Interesting. What would that be?

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