bass
Joined: Aug 01, 2006
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 Posted:
Nov 25, 2014 - 15:46 |
 
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ok so i hear da cage is a good way to go sometimes
just wondering if you employ the typical 5point cage who's on the corners?
4 bobs or the blitzes or both?
thanks
noob lol |
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Roland
Joined: May 12, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 25, 2014 - 15:53 |
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preferably someone with guard
and don't let any opponents be in contact with any of them at the end of your turn.
otherwise you can always use a screen, depends on the opposition. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Nov 25, 2014 - 15:56 |
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best thing to do is find some games of good coaches who play orcs and watch how they move forward, against slow teams you often dont need a cage at all and can just have a big screen of players between them and your ball carrier.
I think replays might not be working mind, so if you do check replays, they should be back up and running tomorrow. |
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Chainsaw
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
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Nov 25, 2014 - 15:57 |
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@OP, you've just oversimplified a complex problem. It's complex because you don't know who will be available for the cage on a given turn. Your black orcs might be tied up.
Really you want 2 guard on opposite corners and none of the cage in touch with a standing opponent. That is roughly the safest set up, but achieving that may not be so easy. |
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m0gw41
Joined: Jun 12, 2012
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| Posted:
Nov 25, 2014 - 15:57 |
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Doesn't matter that much, depends on their skills and the oppo, but try to get a couple of BOBs a bit upfield ready form the next cage or you won't move far without leaving them behind.
Against leapers (woodies/slann etc) you'll want a guard on opposite corners. |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 25, 2014 - 16:00 |
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in my blog you'll find an extensive bb guide called '1000 losses guidebook'...
who's on the corners is a bit situatiational... I like to field the bobs on the positions with the lowest integrity... ie. Your st4 should cover the places where you absolutely don't want your opponent to break through. They don't necessarily have to cover the cage at all times.
As you will find it is not always possible for your opponent to attack equally well from all flanks equally well anyways.
It is nice to move them a bit into the opponent zone possibly early on just because they are hard to reposition and it is just nice to have them there.
On the other hand that is also one of the greatest dilemmas with orcs.. because if you lose the ball for some reason you can't move them back.. so a certain level of balance is probably necessary especially before you have fully secured the ball from your backfield.
So the previously said really applies more on a short kick.
About the cage and the less threatend flanks I maybe should say this: If you play the game really well, you can kinda not do them.
You always have the screen alternative. The thing is, you should make it through your 8 turns without having the ball bounce around. If the ball bounces around at some point you are at risk of losing, it's a noncontrollable situation. So if the ball bounces, remember, you should have done something else/ something better.
So... if you build a semi complete cage (with an opening) and your opponent can get to the opening, the cage alltogether is complete carbage.
Put a goblin there for all that it matters but if you have an open cage you messed up really really big time.
Unless.. the opening is at an ureachable spot for your opponent.
But before you make such assumptions you should really make damn sure, count the squares if you have to and account for them to potentially dodge  .
Hope that helps. |
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Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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| Posted:
Nov 26, 2014 - 15:20 |
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Ah, but not so "noob" that you didn't know to ask.
And it is a complex question, more complex than "4 corners."
| bass wrote: | | ok so i hear da cage is a good way to go sometimes |
ALWAYS.
| Wreckage wrote: | | Unless.. the opening is at an ureachable spot for your opponent. |
Okay, ~almost~ always.
| Quote: | | But before you make such assumptions you should really make damn sure, count the squares if you have to and account for them to potentially dodge . |
Right - when facing a cage, many coaches won't mind taking a low-% blitz on the ball as their (almost) last move that turn. An Ag 2 dodge is just a coin toss, and GFI's are 5/6 to succeed - if you fail early, no RR, but if the dice love you, here comes trouble.
It's easy to form a cage - a safe cage has 3 requirements:
1) At the start of movement, you want 5 unmarked players: Ballcarrier + 4 others. No dodging = no dice rolls. Don't push cage further than MA of slowest player - no GFI's = no dice rolls. No dice rolls = "safe", 100% guaranteed.
If you don't have 5 unmarked players, you may have to Blitz someone free, and/or Block someone free and accept that as one corner. Unskilled Block has a 1/9 chance to fail (4/36), or 1/81 w/ RR - unskilled Ag 3 dodge has 1/3 or 1/9 w/ RR.
(Blitzing a marked player free allows the blitzing player to move AND that other player - that's 2 players on the move. Often better than moving in an assist and blitzing w/ the marked player.
Think about final Position, not just maximizing bash.)
B) No corner in contact w/ a standing Opponent.* Even a -2d can get lucky and open a slot for a Blitz on the ballcarrier.
And watch out for Jump Up.
(* This rule can be broken w/ a 6th player, to double-team on that corner. Be careful of setting yourself up for chain pushes.)
iii) Ballcarrier not in contact w/ a Prone Opponent. Sim to rule B) - even a -2d Blitz can get lucky and start that ball bouncing around, and without Guard it's not hard to make that 1d.
So - that's pretty easy.
What can be tough is advancing that cage. If your opponent marks the corners (so they can only Block out), or if the defense is a double-deep wall that only gives up a couple squares/turn, you may find yourself short come Turn 8.
The solution is to screen forward and to one (or both) sides (or even behind), to send other players out to disrupt the defense, to keep your screen from being surrounded, and to give yourself room to maneuver. And often sending those St 4's forward is more intimidating, preventing the Defense from simply blocking them away (esp if you mark up in pairs). Guard helps a lot in this too.
This is sometimes called "owning space", and is what winning coaches do well, and is something that is not easy to explain, and even then still harder to do than say.
But when rewatching a game, look for it - look what good coaches do w/ their other players once/before the cage is formed with those 5, to limit the options of the Defense. And watch what the Defense can do when that isn't done.
And practice the simple rules of Caging until you don't have to think to get that done. Once you can do that, then you can spend thought on more complex issues like owning space.
GL! |
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gamelsetlmatch
Joined: Mar 05, 2013
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| Posted:
Nov 26, 2014 - 15:45 |
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The only wrong answer, is running a player out all by himself and in blitz range where your opponent can easily get 2 dice against. |
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Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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| Posted:
Nov 26, 2014 - 15:52 |
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OH - and Pro tip: You know how to label players using [shift+right-click] - you can also label empty squares of the field the same way. Count it once, label it, then you have your reference for planning.
I use quick field-labels to plan cages, but also handy for planning passes, or to know how far to drop back to be 100% safe from a defense, etc. (Just erase before next kickoff, good to go). |
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