Mori-mori-mori
Joined: Dec 28, 2014
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 Posted:
Dec 28, 2014 - 12:15 |
 
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That is old idea of mine which I've never brought up before. Now I decided to give it a try.
So, is stalling should be restricted (NOT banned entirely) to ensure more proactive and spectacular play? If you think so, than what's your vision on best approach to achieve it?
Here is my idea. Whenever ball carrier is getting dangerously close to the opposing team's touchdown zone, checks for possibility of touchdown start firing within game itself. The check is positive if there is a clean path from the current ball carrier's square to the touchdown zone, which could be covered in one turn (even if he would need to GFI for 1 or 2 squares); path deemed to be "clean" if there aren't any opposing tackle zones on the route; your own players aren't count as obstacles down the path except for the cases when they cannot be moved out of the way without rolling some dices which could result in turnover (so builing a fence in front of opponent's touchdown zone with your own players won't do you any good)
If ball carrier choose to not proceeed with touchdown while having aforementioned clean path to the zone (i.e. choose to stall), for next 2-3 turns he will be allowed to do so. But after that fans will start to become irritated by such lack of sportsmanship and the stalling coach has to run the 1d6 on start of each of his subsequent turns. If he throws 1 then limited pitch invasion happens in the 3 to 5 squares around the ball carrier (ball carrier himself is affected by it too). This pitch invasion could use the same calculations as one from Kick off events, or could have lesser probabilites of knocking over players and inflicting injuries. |
Last edited by Mori-mori-mori on %b %28, %2014 - %12:%Dec; edited 1 time in total |
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spubbbba
Joined: Jul 31, 2006
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| Posted:
Dec 28, 2014 - 12:22 |
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This kind of thing has been suggested before. Trouble is if you have decimated the other team what is to stop the ball carrier from camping MA+3 squares from the TD line until T7?
It also disincentivises the other team from trying that hard to stop the TD.Why should an elf team burn re-rolls and risk injury when they can run away and give a free path to the other team knowing they'll be given the ball back with 1-2 turns to score? |
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Mori-mori-mori
Joined: Dec 28, 2014
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| Posted:
Dec 28, 2014 - 12:27 |
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| spubbbba wrote: | This kind of thing has been suggested before. Trouble is if you have decimated the other team what is to stop the ball carrier from camping MA+3 squares from the TD line until T7?
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Well, some cases won't be covered by this measures, but may be others will.
| spubbbba wrote: |
It also disincentivises the other team from trying that hard to stop the TD.Why should an elf team burn re-rolls and risk injury when they can run away and give a free path to the other team knowing they'll be given the ball back with 1-2 turns to score? |
Because they still will loose those 2-3 turns which stalling coach can get without risking the consequences. For elves and similar teams capable to TD at least once withing this "timeframe" it's still a lost opportunity. |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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| Posted:
Dec 28, 2014 - 12:32 |
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In Rush and Pass we try to get rid of stalling and bashing. In addition to a 'no stalling!' social contract, we use a scoring system to encourage high TD games:
Each coach gets 1 pt per TD, 1 bonus point for a draw/win, and the winner gets a point per TD difference. This encourages scoring quickly while also promoting defending well. |
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Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
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| Posted:
Dec 28, 2014 - 12:34 |
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Well... I like the fluff behind all that but I have mixed views when it comes to stalling. Mindless, one-sided 8-turns stalling has become the norm among the majority of sub-Legend coaches (at least it seems so, or I'm just having bad luck at the hours I use to play), even against weaker teams, and even when it would be more profitable to score (more TD, more blocks, more SPP). And that's the reason why I don't play my Flings much these days.
Now... Penalizing stalling would also give easy 2 turners like elves too much of an advantage. And that would be bad.
Also, keep in mind stalling isn't necessarily a guy standing alone next to the TD line while the rest of the teams fouls the few opponents left. With my sturdy teams (Orcs, Dorfs, or even sometimes Flings when the trees are in shape), I often stall in the middle of the pitch. By that, I mean I could open a path and advance, but I don't: I just take the max amount of blocks instead. In my mind, when I do that, this is stalling. My opponent may not view it the same way, it's infinitely less boring than the "guy standing one square away from the TD line" attitude, but it's 100% stalling. And no rule could prevent that kind of move. |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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| Posted:
Dec 28, 2014 - 12:45 |
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| Kam wrote: | Well... I like the fluff behind all that but I have mixed views when it comes to stalling. Mindless, one-sided 8-turns stalling has become the norm among the majority of sub-Legend coaches (at least it seems so, or I'm just having bad luck at the hours I use to play), even against weaker teams, and even when it would be more profitable to score (more TD, more blocks, more SPP). And that's the reason why I don't play my Flings much these days.
Now... Penalizing stalling would also give easy 2 turners like elves too much of an advantage. And that would be bad.
Also, keep in mind stalling isn't necessarily a guy standing alone next to the TD line while the rest of the teams fouls the few opponents left. With my sturdy teams (Orcs, Dorfs, or even sometimes Flings when the trees are in shape), I often stall in the middle of the pitch. By that, I mean I could open a path and advance, but I don't: I just take the max amount of blocks instead. In my mind, when I do that, this is stalling. My opponent may not view it the same way, it's infinitely less boring than the "guy standing one square away from the TD line" attitude, but it's 100% stalling. And no rule could prevent that kind of move. |
But a point system like the one in R&P should discourage it, no? =)
Your problem is that people have stopped underestimating your flings. I find that, depending on the coach, either mocking any who stall vs flings or explaining how they are choosing 2-0 over 6-1 is a bad idea can still be pretty effective. =D |
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Mori-mori-mori
Joined: Dec 28, 2014
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| Posted:
Dec 28, 2014 - 12:47 |
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| Kam wrote: |
Now... Penalizing stalling would also give easy 2 turners like elves too much of an advantage. And that would be bad.
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Will limiting stalling to 2-3 turns be such a big difference? Especially taking into account that bash teams currently dominate the pitch on high TVs?
| Kam wrote: |
Also, keep in mind stalling isn't necessarily a guy standing alone next to the TD line while the rest of the teams fouls the few opponents left...My opponent may not view it the same way, it's infinitely less boring than the "guy standing one square away from the TD line" attitude, but it's 100% stalling. And no rule could prevent that kind of move. |
Well, as I said, this change won't cover all possible cases, but it [hopefully] get rid of most blatant (and most boring) ones. |
Last edited by Mori-mori-mori on %b %28, %2014 - %12:%Dec; edited 1 time in total |
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Mori-mori-mori
Joined: Dec 28, 2014
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| Posted:
Dec 28, 2014 - 12:50 |
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| the_Sage wrote: | In Rush and Pass we try to get rid of stalling and bashing. In addition to a 'no stalling!' social contract, we use a scoring system to encourage high TD games:
Each coach gets 1 pt per TD, 1 bonus point for a draw/win, and the winner gets a point per TD difference. This encourages scoring quickly while also promoting defending well. |
That's an intresting approach, too. Does it work well enough, practically? I would probably try to play a couple of games with you, guys. |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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| Posted:
Dec 28, 2014 - 12:51 |
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| Mori-mori-mori wrote: |
Here is my idea. Whenever ball carrier is getting dangerously close to the opposing team's touchdown zone, checks for possibility of touchdown start firing within game itself.
But after that fans will start to become irritated by such lack of sportsmanship and the stalling coach has to run the 1d6 on start of each of his subsequent turns. If he throws 1 then limited pitch invasion happens |
I think that if you want to build anti-stalling into CRP rules, then something with irritated fans would be a great way to implement it. I think I'd probably have the fans throw stuff at the ball carrier, which hits him on a 6, and is scattered 3 times on a 3,4,5. (any player hit by the projectile is knocked prone, and you roll for armor).
| Mori-mori-mori wrote: | | Does it work well enough, practically? I would probably try to play a couple of games with you, guys. |
It does, by and large. It already worked with just the social contract part; this is just something that works well in a small league, but does not translate to something like Ranked. You're welcome to join; just read through the rules and make a new [L] team (I'd recommend elves of some kind). We even have an opening in our current season, so you could hop right into scheduled play, if you can commit to playing 1 game a week. =) |
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Mori-mori-mori
Joined: Dec 28, 2014
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| Posted:
Dec 28, 2014 - 13:43 |
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| the_Sage wrote: | | We even have an opening in our current season, so you could hop right into scheduled play, if you can commit to playing 1 game a week. =) |
It's not a problem, I was looking for that kind of league, in fact. The problem is I haven't been playing BB for around a year already, so need some time to rehabilitate back into, and that I've never played on fumbble before (I used to play in Cyanide system), so need to familiarize myself with FFB client first. Moreover, I actually registered here on fumbbl solely for the sake of trying Stunty Leeg, initially, so I probably start with it ) |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Dec 28, 2014 - 13:53 |
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completely stupid suggestion
if you don't like stalling, position your team better. |
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Faulcon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 28, 2014 - 13:54 |
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Dislike. If you want to play in a league that house rules it then go for it but as an official rule no thanks.
Time wasting is common in a lot of sports for the winning team. If the other team can't stop you wasting time that's their problem and I don't see why we need a rule to do it for them. Hell bloodbowl is loosely based on american football and how often do you see one of those games end with the quarterback kneeling? |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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I think the best anti stalling method goes:
1: Put one player into a position where you can theoretically blitz the ball carrier (even if it's very unlikely)
2: Commit any engaging players to gang-fouling the nearest available player. If more than one target then best player first. |
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Mori-mori-mori
Joined: Dec 28, 2014
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| Posted:
Dec 28, 2014 - 14:16 |
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| Faulcon wrote: | Dislike. If you want to play in a league that house rules it then go for it but as an official rule no thanks.
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Hey, it's a board about house rules, in fact ) |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Dec 28, 2014 - 14:45 |
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| mister__joshua wrote: | I think the best anti stalling method goes:
1: Put one player into a position where you can theoretically blitz the ball carrier (even if it's very unlikely)
2: Commit any engaging players to gang-fouling the nearest available player. If more than one target then best player first. |
1) And this position could be exactly within range of a clawpomber, so you are exposing one of your players to a blitz, making things worse, since if you are suffering a stalling then there is a good chance you have not enough players to stop it.
2) If you can gang foul ok, but what if you have not enough players to gang foul?
And what if after your smart gang foul the next turn all your gang fouling players are marked by opponent players, some of them with clawpomb?
Sometimes it's better to let the opponent stall and minimize the damage suffered, trying to get a draw in the 2nd half. |
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