| Poll |
| Should we change the rules to encourage more passing? |
| Yes |
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19% |
[ 15 ] |
| No |
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80% |
[ 62 ] |
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| Total Votes : 77 |
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markor
Joined: May 07, 2015
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 Posted:
Jun 01, 2015 - 11:17 |
 
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Hi, I have played over 70 games on here now, and in that time no one has scored a classic passing td against me (long bomb/long pass to a guy waiting in the end zone), even though I have played high elves, skaven and wood elves several times. The most they have done is pass the ball in their half and then run through my defence. I however have scored dozens of such td's, so it is by means difficult to do so, if you have a passing team.
I think the real reason that players don't do this is because grinding works best for any team, not because it is the best way to score (it isn't) but because if your opponent scores in 2 turns then you can spend the next 14 turns grinding him down. If you have a bit of luck, and those leapers don't knock your ball-carrier down and grab the ball, then you will usually win 2-1. I think it is fine for the grinding teams to do this, but when all the teams do this it starts to get a bit boring. I recently played against a human team with no catchers and no throwers! I didn't mind him grinding out a win against me, but his team selection showed that this was his plan against whoever he was playing, be it Skaven or Chaos! I thought the whole idea of humans is that they are flexible, but this team had no flexibility at all.
To stop everyone just playing a grinding game, I don't think we need to change the rules too much. We just need to it slightly less easy to cause cas. The real problem in my eyes is Piling On - I would love to know why the original rules for it were changed, since it was good enough already. Now it is just way too powerful, so that a mediocre player can just get this skill for 3 or players in his team and put half the opposing team (if they are a low av team) out of action by half time. The other change I would make is to remove the Guard skill, as this is also far too powerful, and gives running teams an unfair edge - even when you can get to the ball carrier, and he you actually have the same (or god forbid a higher strength than him!) his bodyguard will make it a 2D block against you!
I think these two relatively minor changes would make BB much more enjoyable, as you would see more clashes of styles rather than just 2 teams grinding away at each other for 16 turns.
Oh, and before someone accuses me of being a bad loser, if I was I would just play a grinding game like everyone else - I don't mind losing games, I just don't want to be bored while I'm playing them. |
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Calcium
Joined: Apr 08, 2007
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2015 - 11:29 |
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So you want to modify the rules to maximise your chances of winning and suit your personal preferences? Nothing new there! There's lots of ways to play BB, accept that your playstyle differs from others instead of trying to make people play your way.
Oh yeah, I give this 1 page before it becomes the usual clawPOMB nonsense.... |
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Badoek
Joined: May 17, 2009
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2015 - 11:57 |
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Slightly schizophrenic OP there. I really think you should make a distinction between "promoting passing" and "nerfing the bashing". The former is a decent topic, the latter has been discussed non-stop for ages so you should probably join one of those topics/blog posts/whatever.
IIRC the general consensus is that passing is hard to promote because it quickly becomes overpowered. Correct me if I'm wrong though. |
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BlueDevil420
Joined: Dec 19, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2015 - 12:01 |
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Joining the Rush and Pass league should be right up your alley. I'm sure someone will come around soon who's got the link handy  |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2015 - 12:03 |
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Taking passing in isolation, the main problem is the ease with which an interception can be made. Apart from High Elves, no thrower has Safe Throw and all the other throwers will prioritise other skills first, that means anyone can grab the ball on a 6 ... far too risky.
If they want to increase the passing game, the first thing they would probably need to do is give all throwers Safe Throw, perhaps as part of the Pass skill.
I am not going to reply to the rest because it descended into the usual argument that everyone has heard a dozen (or more) times before. |
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Stikki
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2015 - 12:04 |
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Honestly, I'm not sure 32 completions for 275 yards in 83 games counts as much of a passing game.
But anyway, the rules aren't the problem. If the grind bothers you, just build a team that can deal with it, and long bomb at the same time. That's possible with most teams.
And if you can't beat the grind, just throw the long bomb anyway and worry about the rest afterwards - that works well for me, and I win 47% of my games! |
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Medon
Joined: Jan 28, 2015
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2015 - 12:04 |
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Hey this sounds familiar! I also score half my touch downs using passing to the end zone. However, by reading some of the play books available I learned this is actuallyshowing a weakness...! The running game (according to the pros) is apparently preferable because of risk management. If you fail a roll you still have many players in the vicinity of the ball (that is, if your positioning is good). If you fail a roll in the passing game, the opponent can easily grab the ball and start his own offense... The problem is... My positioning is not good enough to force a break through the lines in the running game so I have to revert back to the passing game half of the time. Maybe the same holds for you  ... Although I must admit that I do like the excitement it brings when you succeed a long pass and catch! The more difficult the rolls, the better the more fun! (both when failing or succeeding  ) |
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markor
Joined: May 07, 2015
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2015 - 12:19 |
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Stikki, if you think about it, I only have the chance once a game, and I have only been a passing team (wood elves) for about a third of those games, so that is one per game. And none (or very few) of them were passes in my half, or passes just to get sps.
If it's not a problem, why haven't any teams done this against me? If it is only (as you are suggesting) a decent tactic for really good players, then I think that is a problem - you end up with 'how to play guides' telling new players not to do this, so everyone just goes for the grind. |
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markor
Joined: May 07, 2015
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2015 - 12:21 |
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Calcium, I want to change the rules so that different teams play in different styles. |
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markor
Joined: May 07, 2015
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2015 - 12:22 |
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Badoek, I don't think it was schizophrenic at all, since the two are directly related - if you made bashing less effective there would be more passing. |
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Endzone
Joined: Apr 01, 2008
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2015 - 12:23 |
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One of my first teams in the Blackbox was a passing High Elf Team. I used double 6 to get strong Arm on my thrower an had a good run with them for a while. Here is one of their first games with their thrower where they use the passing game to turn around a 1-0 half time deficit. http://fumbbl.com/p/match?op=view&id=3119392
I am not saying the passing game I optimum but if you really want to it is playable. |
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Stikki
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2015 - 12:39 |
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Markor: Noooo, I'm honestly not suggesting it's only a tactic for really good players! There's a reason I'm currently ranked at 1509, and it's a lot to do with my passing philosophy.
What I'm saying is that you can have a perfectly good passing game within the existing rules. Also, you will always get some players who want to win at all costs, and others who want to have fun at all costs, so my suggestion to you if you want to have a passing game is play lots more and find those opponents who best help you to enjoy the style of play you prefer and don't play the others more than once. |
Last edited by Stikki on %b %01, %2015 - %12:%Jun; edited 1 time in total |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2015 - 12:40 |
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Turn 2 scoring is usually a bad strategy. Blood bowl is won by clock control, and this means scoring when it suits your strategy best. This is more often than not turn 8 your drive, although some match-ups (Elfs vs Khemri) favor earlier scores.
My first hundred games or so, I used to play the same fast paced passing game with High Elves. At some point I realized, like you, that scoring as fast as possible meant losing the game. Understanding the timing of the games is the key here, and it has nothing to do with piling on. Just look at how Pro-elves and Vampires, without any hitting power at all, often do their best to postpone their scoring, and if they score early, it's often regarded as a win by the deffense rather than the offense. |
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Calcium
Joined: Apr 08, 2007
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2015 - 12:41 |
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| markor wrote: | | Calcium, I want to change the rules so that different teams play in different styles. |
You want to change the rules to suit your own playstyle..... |
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Angmarred
Joined: Feb 28, 2015
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| Posted:
Jun 01, 2015 - 12:46 |
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I'm certainly no expert, but I think you have an incorrect view of what counts as a "classic passing td" at least in blood bowl. Throwing a long pass to a guy already in the end zone is a terrible idea. If you fail one of the (many) rolls required to do that not only do you not score, your receiver gets crowd pushed immediately. The "classic" passing td in BB is a throw to a guy in range of the end zone, then he runs it in before your opponent can go. That sort of TD is alive and well. |
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