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Scar006



Joined: Aug 24, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 15, 2015 - 19:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Angmarred wrote:

To create a perfect representation? Yeah you'd need high end stuff. To create a reasonable facsimile? I don't think so. Use a hex map to better represent free form movement. Simplify and normalize the cover rules based on the size and thickness of the material. Come up with a simple way to normalize shooting across vertical levels. Limit the map to probably 3 stories.

I'm no programmer, but based on what little I know it should be possible.


Its easy to underestimate the complexity of a program if you never tried to build one yourself.

Fantasy Football (BB) is a relatively easy port, as it can be simulated with a grid system and on a 2d plane, the animations required are minimal and 2d sprite are sufficient. The game logic can be implemented in a more or less straight forward way and the rules are clear.

Any war type game is multiple orders of magnitude harder to implement, not only will you need 3d models, also the collision detection and rules to apply, specifically in cerner cases is far from trivial.

And if you start to deviate from the rules, you change the game and balance becomes a huge problem, as well as resolving all the new issues due to the deviation.

The UI itself is a huge challenge...

In any case the only web-client I would be interested to help develop is the one for Fumbbl, its feasable to accomplish it as a one or two man team, the graphics don't need to be too sophisticated (or are already done) and a nice UI can be done which can be mobile ready.

Anything else (specifically a tabletop war type game) is out of scope of my time I could dedicate to such a project.
Angmarred



Joined: Feb 28, 2015

Post   Posted: Jun 16, 2015 - 03:17 Reply with quote Back to top

That's my point. I don't think you need all that to make a 90% serviceable necro app. Especially if you simplify movement to a hex map.
stenskott



Joined: Oct 06, 2010

Post   Posted: Jun 17, 2015 - 15:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Should we get going, Scar006? Smile
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 17, 2015 - 16:05 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd be interested in this. Can't say yet how much time I'd have though. Wink

Any thoughts on es6 + a transpiler?

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stenskott



Joined: Oct 06, 2010

Post   Posted: Jun 17, 2015 - 16:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Or maybe we use Phaser?
bmceldowney



Joined: Oct 15, 2011

Post   Posted: Jun 20, 2015 - 02:09 Reply with quote Back to top

I've used Phaser quite a bit in the past and I can definitely recommend it.

I'd honestly consider eschewing canvas for a simple DOM implementation, but I don't expect that to be a popular idea.

At any rate, I'd like to contribute to any effort in this direction. Anyone set up a repository yet?
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 20, 2015 - 02:35 Reply with quote Back to top

There is no project manager. As far as I know the non existent project manager has not spoken to the customer.

I wouldn't start getting excited quite yet.

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bmceldowney



Joined: Oct 15, 2011

Post   Posted: Jun 20, 2015 - 05:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Oh, I'm always excited about Fantasy Football. It's actually something I should probably see someone about.
stenskott



Joined: Oct 06, 2010

Post   Posted: Jun 20, 2015 - 12:53 Reply with quote Back to top

What would be the reasoning behind dropping canvas?
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 20, 2015 - 13:15 Reply with quote Back to top

stenskott wrote:
What would be the reasoning behind dropping canvas?


"Dropping"? I didn't think anything had been agreed yet. Wink

Good question though. But would a fantasy football client be doing anything that needs canvas?

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Scar006



Joined: Aug 24, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 20, 2015 - 17:01 Reply with quote Back to top

Ok I just started to put the pieces together after a few days of research what we could use.

I settled on the following things:

Language: Typescript http://www.typescriptlang.org/

Frontend Graphics framework: Pixi.js http://www.pixijs.com/

Data Synchronisation and storage: Meteor https://www.meteor.com/

For each of the mentioned framework parts, there exists a Typescript definition file, so we can use everything in a type safe manner.

Typescript already implements ECMA script 6 classes and other features.


pixi.js supports webgl but can fall back to the canvas is needed. I ran a few tests even on mobile devices and it seems to be really fast.

Meteor will allow us to have through the DDP protocol the synchronisation of the game states, and you could even observe the other player playing in real time. In addition it allows us to handle all the data storage we need. The underlying database technology is MongoDB, which will suffice for our needs and keeps everything quiet flexible.

Another advantage of Meteor is the possibility to create a Cordova/Phonegap wrapper of the web client code to have it deployed on mobile devices.

I have setup a git repo here: https://github.com/Aranir/fumbbl

But haven't pushed any code yet as I am still testing out the frameworks and play around with the different technologies.

If any of you want me to push the basic setup already that they can also play with it let me know.

Any comments and suggestions of the technologies chosen would be appreciated. Nothing is set in stone of course so we can still decide to do things differently.
bmceldowney



Joined: Oct 15, 2011

Post   Posted: Jun 20, 2015 - 17:11 Reply with quote Back to top

stenskott wrote:
What would be the reasoning behind dropping canvas?

My main reasoning is ease of UI development. Handrolling custom UI elements (buttons, popup menus, dropdowns, etc...) would be necessary with a canvas implementation. The DOM has all of these and more for free.

And since mobile compatibility seems to be a goal for this project, I think implementing some kind of responsive layout is going to be a lot more straightforward using straight DOM.

Plus, it's really just overkill IMHO. Canvas is awesome for anything that needs to run smoothly at 60fps. We need about 3.5fps for this project. Many frameworks (like pixi or phaser) are going to be updating the screen every 16ms whether you need them to or not. Not so with the DOM.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 20, 2015 - 17:21 Reply with quote Back to top

Scar006: What is Christer's position on all this?

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Scar006



Joined: Aug 24, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 20, 2015 - 17:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
My main reasoning is ease of UI development. Handrolling custom UI elements (buttons, popup menus, dropdowns, etc...) would be necessary with a canvas implementation. The DOM has all of these and more for free.


It certainly would be possible to make it work with the DOM, but form my experience touch interaction with the DOM (drag and drop especially) are harder to make work properly.

I myself have more experience with classical game frameworks and sprites rather than dom manipulations, I therefore would tend to go with a game framework just due to familiarity.

In any case we can use a combination of both if we see that the UI becomes the problematic part to implement, as we can still use the canvas to render the game and the DOM for the bottom UI.
Scar006



Joined: Aug 24, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 20, 2015 - 17:26 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
Scar006: What is Christer's position on all this?


Nothing up to now... Confused
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