Macabeo
Joined: Feb 13, 2011
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 Posted:
Jun 17, 2015 - 14:11 |
 
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Some people suggest the passing theme for Amazons, but as we all know passing as the main offensive threat is pretty risky and brings little to the defensive capabilities of the team.
A more adequate theme is mobility and ball hawking, without turning them into either a dodge spam or an AG4 spam team. Another major thing is trying to make them viable at higher TVs despite AV7. Here's my take:
0-16 Linewoman: 6337 Fend GA 50k
Trade Dodge for Fend, but give them A access. Weak 0-16 position, but Fend helps survivability and mobility and A access allows better long term development (i.e. Dodge or DP+SG)
0-2 Thrower: 6337 Sure Hands, Hail Mary Pass GAP 70k
A ball retriever and/or a ball carrier with a panic button of sorts, good for a mobile team. Useful in defense once the ball has popped out to pick it up and throw it away as far as possible. A access also helps (i.e. Dodge and Leap to reach the ball).
0-2 Catcher: 8237 Dodge, Catch, Dauntless GA 70k
Let's assume that the Human Catcher is 7337 to avoid redundancy. Fast but weak, albeit with potential for Ball Sacking thanks to Dauntless. Dauntless also makes it kind of similar to the Norse Runner.
0-4 Blitzer: 7337 Wrestle, Dodge GAS 90k
Blodge out of the box is too powerful and cheesy, so trade Block for Wrestle but give them MA7 and A access to compensate. Wrestle is awkward with S access, but this increases the ball hawking potential of the team and also opens the question of who should be the ball carrier.
(Optional) Kroxigor
The other "human" teams have a Big Guy, and Amazons live in Lustria and are often depicted in fiction as riding dinosaurs and whatnot. Besides, they need a decent big guy to compensate for the lack of punch and resilience.
Some things that this roster brings:
- Universal A access without AG4 and with S access
- Fend
- Wrestle (with S access)
- Hail Mary Pass
- ST2 + Dauntless out of the box |
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awambawamb
Joined: Feb 17, 2008
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| Posted:
Jun 17, 2015 - 14:43 |
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Norse = Block
Zons = Dodge
taking away the main skill from the roster is... awkward. |
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"la virtù sta nel cielo e nella terra, ma anche nelle nuvole e nelle stelle"
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jun 17, 2015 - 14:43 |
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The cookie cutter build of zons and norse would never get approved now. So you have 3 choices.
1. Don't change anything.
2. Change the core skill cookie cutter build. However remember this skill should make them competitive at some level.
3. Make them more in line with other races. Probably on this line all catchers should be ag4.
Your line up, has random skills for no fluff reason and positionals overdescribed. Remember making a balanced roster, isn't that hard. However making a balanced roster that's fits the fluff isn't. |
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Roland
Joined: May 12, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 17, 2015 - 14:46 |
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| awambawamb wrote: | Norse = Block
Zons = Dodge
taking away the main skill from the roster is... awkward. |
yup.
I remember when the rosters were almost the same, but dodge in one and block in the other... |
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Roland
Joined: May 12, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 17, 2015 - 14:48 |
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Macabeo
Joined: Feb 13, 2011
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Jun 17, 2015 - 16:23 |
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| Roland wrote: | | awambawamb wrote: | Norse = Block
Zons = Dodge
taking away the main skill from the roster is... awkward. |
yup.
I remember when the rosters were almost the same, but dodge in one and block in the other... |
Well, on one hand Dodge spam is the main problem with Amazons (bland, powerful at low TV but not at high TV, lopsided match ups). On the other, up to six players begin with Dodge and the rest can get it on normal rolls, so it's not a huge departure from the original Amazon concept.
| harvestmouse wrote: | | Your line up, has random skills for no fluff reason and positionals overdescribed. Remember making a balanced roster, isn't that hard. However making a balanced roster that's fits the fluff isn't. |
I can't agree with the overdescribing, only one positional has more than 2 skills and most changes are skill switchs from other players, Amazons or otherwise. I agree with the bolded, but I don't think this line up is unfluffy.
Amazons are human (human stats) female (not as strong/resilient, but not far off) jungle warriors (mobile, stealthy, determined,...). Fend, Dodge, A access with S access, hunting for the ball,... without resorting to AG4 looks like a plausible representation.
Anyway, could you point me out some ideas that in your opinion would be closer to the Amazon's background? Thanks! |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jun 18, 2015 - 00:35 |
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The roster is overdescribed for me. You have too many different and new skills on the team. Remember they're humans. Why are they so different to normal humans skillwise? Sure you've explained why, but it feels bolted on.
However as Brets linos will have fend from now on, I guess we'll eventually have to accept that.
The stat changes I'm fine with. Blitzer, I'm also fine with.
I think Zons will either have to be similar to humans, or change to another cookie cutter skill. I think they're difficult.
Personally, I think I'd just up the price of the lino a bit, and change block to wrestle on the blitzers. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Jun 18, 2015 - 00:48 |
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Amazons aren't humans though. Humanoid sure, but no way can a team of human women be as strong as an equivalent team of human men. |
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Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Jun 18, 2015 - 02:38 |
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They are pretty good ideas. The catcher should be slightly more expensive than a normal one due to Dauntless.
Wrodge and HMP players are amusing and useful options at low tv. Though of course no block means they may run into trouble. |
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“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Jun 18, 2015 - 02:45 |
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just remove the team
it's OP at low TV, and then useless at high TV. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Jun 18, 2015 - 04:03 |
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| Macabeo wrote: |
0-4 Blitzer: 7337 Wrestle, Dodge GAS 90k
Blodge out of the box is too powerful and cheesy, so trade Block for Wrestle but give them MA7 and A access to compensate. Wrestle is awkward with S access, but this increases the ball hawking potential of the team and also opens the question of who should be the ball carrier. |
A Blitzer with Wrestle doesn't make any sense, a Blitzer must have Block to fulfil properly his role, i.e. guarding team mates and hurting opponent players.
What about:
0-16 Linewoman: 6337 Wrestle GA 50k (so they wouldn't suck horribly vs Dwarfs and Chaos Dwarfs, while Agility access would give them Wrodge at 6 SPPs to make up for AV 7)
0-2 Thrower: 6337 Sure Hands, Pass GAP 70k
0-2 Catcher: 8237 Catch, Dodge GA 70k
0-4 Blitzer: 7337 Block, Dodge GAS 100k |
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fidius
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
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Jun 18, 2015 - 06:04 |
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I think Amazons can only be fixed in the context of significant rules changes. For example, if Dodge and Block were each separated into their component parts you could still spam defensive dodge but give the "dodge" Dodge to catchers (plus MV7), then give blitzers only the offensive Block and not the defensive. Blanket A access is a good idea. Like the Krox idea too. Don't care for blanket Fend, Wrestle, or HMP. Would keep blitzers to GS. Would also split 0-4 Blitzers into 0-2 Blitzers and 0-2 Huntresses, giving the former "dodge" Dodge and the latter "modified Claw" & MV7. |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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Jun 18, 2015 - 06:55 |
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| Roland wrote: | | awambawamb wrote: | Norse = Block
Zons = Dodge
taking away the main skill from the roster is... awkward. |
yup.
I remember when the rosters were almost the same, but dodge in one and block in the other... |
+2
That's their shtick. Good job of it too.
we're free to make other team rosters. But if the core skill isn't dodge...it isn't amazon...it's something else. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Jun 18, 2015 - 07:42 |
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THe main problem is not dodge. The main problem is underpriced dodge. Much easier to solve balance issues with price than anything else, as price has no fluff, while stats do have. So the best tool to max out fluff, and balance is pricing. |
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Roland
Joined: May 12, 2004
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Jun 18, 2015 - 08:11 |
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| bghandras wrote: | | THe main problem is not dodge. The main problem is underpriced dodge. Much easier to solve balance issues with price than anything else, as price has no fluff, while stats do have. So the best tool to max out fluff, and balance is pricing. |
60k linewomen?
would that be enough? |
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