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DoubleSkulls



Joined: Oct 05, 2003

Post   Posted: May 13, 2004 - 13:03 Reply with quote Back to top

So should DivX try to move to the vault rules asap? Obviously we need Christer & Ski to do all the work - but do we want to?

As I understood it half the point of DivX is so that we can play test the experimental rules to give Fanatic some decent play testing.

If we do want to move over, should all existing DivX teams get retired/transferred?

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ChrisB



Joined: Nov 28, 2003

Post   Posted: May 13, 2004 - 13:10 Reply with quote Back to top

No - the vault rules are a mix of good and some not so good ideas.......
AvatarDM



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 13, 2004 - 13:37 Reply with quote Back to top

I would really like to test the Vault rules in dx... If this happends, all dx teams have to be moved to unranked...
Vero



Joined: Dec 30, 2003

Post   Posted: May 13, 2004 - 13:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Yep. There's some really good and some really bad in the vault. Really like divx like it's now but I'm not making decisions here Smile
DoubleSkulls



Joined: Oct 05, 2003

Post   Posted: May 13, 2004 - 14:29 Reply with quote Back to top

ChrisB wrote:
No - the vault rules are a mix of good and some not so good ideas.......


Isn't that the point of DivX - to play test them to provide feedback about what's good and what isn't?

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Michael_Warblade



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 13, 2004 - 14:31 Reply with quote Back to top

Personally i belive the only way we are going to know if the vault rules are any good is to test them on a large scale to see what the affects are.

I personally dont mind the new rules i mean they have little effect on actual gameplay and more affect on between match events (winnings, injuries, skills)
m0nty



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 13, 2004 - 14:45 Reply with quote Back to top

At this stage, discussions have been around creating a new Vault division with all teams starting from scratch. This is, of course, still entirely conjecture and does not represent FUMBBL policy. What then happens to dX is still yet to be decided - most probably the teams will all be moved to U.
monboesen



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 13, 2004 - 14:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes we should test them in div-x. In order to do so in a realistic environment all existing div-x teams should be moved to the Unranked league. That should by the way be the new standard. When new major rule revisions are officially out, the div-x division should be emptied and the new rules implemented alongside with fresh teams to test them.

It will then be up to the moderators to rewiev results and decide on wether the rules should be the new standard for all fumbbl. That said I think it would be best in general to stick as close to the official rules as possible.
Mully



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 13, 2004 - 15:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:

So should DivX try to move to the vault rules asap? Obviously we need Christer & Ski to do all the work - but do we want to?


NO

Why not?
1) We shouldn't change Div-X every time a new set of proposed rules arrives. We've barely had enough time to test the previous "no ageing" rules and now we are gonna scrap them for the next round of changes?

2) Move Div-X teams to "U"? What if you already have filled your "U" slots? Are you now gonna force people to retire teams due to no fault of there own? Doesn't seem fair.

<b>Suggestion (actually Mirascael's suggestion)</b>

Make the new ladder league conform to the vault rules with a type of challenge system that Christer comes up with in place. It makes sense if you want to keep the ladder unique and a challenge type system may better test the new rules rather than an open cherry pickin' system.

Separately I think the admins have to think about how much time they want skijunkie to spend on modifying rules that may never exist. There are still bugs to be worked on and dungeonbowl work that many people would like to see.

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Lorka



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 13, 2004 - 15:34 Reply with quote Back to top

I would love to try out the new vault rules on FUMBBL, divX or a new div is up to Christer and Co.
Mully



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 13, 2004 - 15:39 Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:

That should by the way be the new standard. When new major rule revisions are officially out, the div-x division should be emptied and the new rules implemented alongside with fresh teams to test them


By "emptied" do you mean retired? You want to see Div-X die an even quicker death?
Hey coach, we are giving you a division to test new rules, but don't get too attached to your teams because every <b>year</b> when there are rule suggestions those teams are gonna get scrapped.

Well, THERE'S an incentive to build up teams.

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BadMrMojo



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 13, 2004 - 16:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Mully wrote:
... I think the admins have to think about how much time they want skijunkie to spend on modifying rules that may never exist...

Yup. What he said.

I think people are getting a little carried away with these. It's a collection of a few ideas - some good, some not - but not the new Rules Review.

Ski's always stated that he's trying to make a LRB-compliant program (hence no new skills for Stunty Leeg) and since none of us have any actual sway over what he does, let him do his thing.

If you want to playtest the rules presented in the vault, then by all means do so... even if you have to <gasp!> do it yourself rather than having someone hand it to you on a silver platter.

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DoubleSkulls



Joined: Oct 05, 2003

Post   Posted: May 13, 2004 - 17:28 Reply with quote Back to top

m0nty wrote:
At this stage, discussions have been around creating a new Vault division with all teams starting from scratch. This is, of course, still entirely conjecture and does not represent FUMBBL policy. What then happens to dX is still yet to be decided - most probably the teams will all be moved to U.


Well creating a new "Vault" division would stop the complaints about teams getting scrapped (or whatever).

I think if we do go down that route it has to be fundamental to the division that teams will get arbitarily scrapped on a regular basis - maybe not every year - maybe more frequently than that (what happens when Chets injury rules come out, or the rules get a big change?). Isn't that the point of play testing? Loss of teams (or resetting thereof) is going to happen so if you don't it to happen don't play in the experimental division.

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monboesen



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 13, 2004 - 17:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:

I think if we do go down that route it has to be fundamental to the division that teams will get arbitarily scrapped on a regular basis - maybe not every year - maybe more frequently than that (what happens when Chets injury rules come out, or the rules get a big change?). Isn't that the point of play testing? Loss of teams (or resetting thereof) is going to happen so if you don't it to happen don't play in the experimental division.


What he said. A testing league is not about building teams for keeps, its about testing rules. For long term teams play Ranked or Unranked.
LordSigmund



Joined: Jan 28, 2004

Post   Posted: May 13, 2004 - 17:44 Reply with quote Back to top

Mully wrote:
We've barely had enough time to test the previous "no ageing" rules and now we are gonna scrap them for the next round of changes?


Well the no aging rules are in the vault rules as well.

But wasn't DivX specifically created to test new rules ideas out? If you want tobuild a team up theres plenty of other divisions designed to do this.

I think that a few of the vault rules should be tested out at a time, maybe for a couple of months each, or however much time is needed to collect data on them. Then swap those rules out to test some more. Obviously test rules that rely on each other together, just to see how each bit of the game is affected by the vault rules.
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