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Matthueycamo



Joined: May 16, 2014

Post   Posted: Jun 09, 2016 - 19:35 Reply with quote Back to top

I respect it a lot as an effort, however I think the kick off rules are a possible recipe for turning that part of the game into an RNG fest disaster. Combine that with the new OT rules makes the new OT rules potentially dangerously one sided. They are I think too one sided now but this makes them too one sided in the other direction. The changes to MVP are bad, I think it makes the MVP a min/max tool now. Same with peaked, maybe just lead to player cycling more than leaving a player on the team stuck on the level with spiralling expenses now gone as it stands. I would advise doing something here with SE and also maybe something more around Jmen thus making it not really possible to cycle players that peak very often. Then it might work whilst right now it just seems like a mechanic that will just annoy people whilst adding little value.

Don't get me wrong there seems to be a lot of fun stuff in there, but those things are the concerns I have.

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ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jun 09, 2016 - 19:43 Reply with quote Back to top

mister__joshua wrote:

CDorfs I don't think need M access. Their main game should be their Centaurs and Blockers (which are still nasty players). I don't think the M added a lot, and I don't remember mutant dwarves being a big thing in the old CDorf fluff.



Mutations were actually big in CDorf fluff in both 2nd ed bloodbowl and old WHFB, before GW changed the fluff and essentially wrote that out of WHFB and BB changed to follow suit.

If you go and look at old Cdorf models (both BB and WHFB), you'll see plenty of mutated Cdorfs.


I'd personally get rid of the mino on the cdorf team if I was losing mutations and give them a new big guy. I don't particularly like the mino fluff wise or on the field.

[edit] I read the pdf, and I must say, that while in the thread everything seemed not too bad and to flow together, when I read it as one document, it seems like a lot more info and extra things that new players would have to learn/account for, and while some areas are simpler, the extra mechanics make some things a lot less intuitive and possibly even more complex.

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deyempe



Joined: Aug 14, 2013

Post   Posted: Jun 09, 2016 - 22:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Just read MrJsLRB7, not bad at all.

Very nicely written and presented. I havent read the roster changes yet.

I kind of like the new Apothecary system, not sure 10gp will make much differance to anyone tho xD Maybe 1000, 5000 or 10.000 ?

I like the new Fan Factor system idea, it makes alot of sense to me, adds more atmosphere and certainly renders the fans as a bit more of a commodity to have!


My concerns:

I havent read all the skill descriptions yet but one thing that I notice is the removal of 2 skills, Hail Mary Pass and Sprint. I wonder why you choose to remove these skills. I know HMP isnt any throwers first choice of passing skill, but it is a skill that has its place - certainly on a Bombardier, I dont think removing it is good idea, its a skill Id take on certain throwing players.

And sprint!?.. I can understand removing it from Woodie catchers as a starting skill however I wouldnt do that. I cannot understand removing it alltogether tho.. what about dem poor MA5 Snots whats only access is A skills, or Goblins even, I havent yet but I will take Sprint after Sure Feet on many a Goblin. Ok Sprint isnt an amazing skill but again I think its good enough to remain in the game.

Anyway good read and some interesting ideas ect

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fidius



Joined: Jun 17, 2011

Post   Posted: Jun 10, 2016 - 00:20 Reply with quote Back to top

I had come to similar conclusions as MrJ in my own "custom rulebook" thinking where HMP and Sprint are concerned, but backpedalled on Sprint.

I don't like the idea of MA10+Sprint being possible, so I floated the idea of a Sprint that required a "push-off", ie you had to at least dodge out of a tacklezone to get the extra MV point. Still might go that direction (bit complicated), but now am leaning more to just moving Sprint to Extraordinary. Tough call.

For HMP how about merging it with Kick, and calling the action a Punt? Let's face it, the current HMP has fluff issues, not the least of which is the 2+ unmodified by tacklezones. The action should be able to be thwarted by TZs in my opinion. Also, with MrJ's changes to passing fumbles (which I think are relatively well-considered), the "thrown punt" becomes much easier, as an inaccurate Bomb is only a 2+, which is practically HMP already. Might as well add full-blown HMP to an existing skill that is already worth taking in its own right.
deyempe



Joined: Aug 14, 2013

Post   Posted: Jun 10, 2016 - 00:44 Reply with quote Back to top

My own nerf for sprint would be along the lines of only players with MA8 or less may learn it. As anything greater would/could already be considdered as a sprinting player! This way you dont take the option away from stunty and slower player, but you Woodie Catchers and Gutter Runners for example have no access to it. Not sure its the best fit as there are no skills currently with rules like that (afaik) but its one way of doing it.

Merging Kick & HMP im down with.

I wouldnt have expressed any concern if there was somthing in the rulebook indicating this kind of thing, but all I found on it was: Hail Mary Pass (Removed)

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mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 10, 2016 - 01:28
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Sorry, maybe removed was the wrong term. Hmp was added to the String Arm skill, and sprint was added to very long legs (replacing the old +ma from 4th). I don't think any skills were totally removed,just removed as skill options on their own.

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ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jun 10, 2016 - 01:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Q: what do bull centaurs now get instead of sprint then? Or are we treating them as having long legs Very Happy

I also think surefeet allowing leap rerolls is quite overpowered.

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deyempe



Joined: Aug 14, 2013

Post   Posted: Jun 10, 2016 - 02:04 Reply with quote Back to top

mister__joshua wrote:
Sorry, maybe removed was the wrong term. Hmp was added to the String Arm skill, and sprint was added to very long legs (replacing the old +ma from 4th). I don't think any skills were totally removed,just removed as skill options on their own.


Bah! No Worries, as I said; 'I havent read all the skill descriptions yet' ...obviously I should have ^^

Nice but still not good for my poor Goblins Razz

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mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 10, 2016 - 09:59
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Cheers for the feedback chaps. I'll try and respond to it all.

@matthueycamo: The Kick-off stuff. I think the changes make the kick-off more interesting. The idea is to encourage risk for reward. Currently teams rarely kick anywhere but the central square (unless they have a kicker). If there's a chance that a bounce will give you the ball people will try and risk shorter kicks etc.

The overtime rules were some of WhatBall's that I left in. I read it and thought it sounded good, but haven't thought too much about it tbh.

@arrested: The fluff I know for CDs didn't have mutations, but I think this is just different time periods. I'm not against them getting it back. The Sprint/Centaur thing is one of those aforementioned editing errors. I'll have a think what to do about that.

@deyempe: Thanks for the feedback. The rules earlier in the book (the fans, apoth, levellers etc.) I'm quite happy with how they came together. The whole Skills section is a bit more experimental.

The idea was, rather than costing skills individually, to make skills more equivalent in value. To this end I worked on a principle of 'What would make me pick this over Block'. A lot of the skills did get a lot stronger. The whole thing would require some testing to see how it balances out, but I don't think the strong skills overpower current strong skills (block, dodge, guard etc.)

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Harad



Joined: May 11, 2014

Post   Posted: Jun 10, 2016 - 10:30 Reply with quote Back to top

Good stuff Josh. Blood Bowl is a well loved game and so people aren't going to agree with every change but I think some good thought has gone into what to change and how to change it. I and others would surely have made different changes but that doesn't make us right or wrong.
Instead, I've focussed on the parts where I think your changes may have slightly unintended consequences (I'm also just focussing on the core rules for now, the skills and rosters almost warrant a separate discussion):

1. The uncontested pickup rules could be a big deal. From a fluff point of view they make perfect sense but often against low AG teams the best chance is if they fumble the pick up. I wonder if this will have a more dramatic change on racial win percentages than intended.
2. I like the idea of peaking but now only 3% (if I did the sums right) of players with enough spps will make it to legend. That probably works well in some environments and not so well in others. I think it also works better for some races and positions than others. Which may just increase the churn of players and many of the aspects that goes with this.
3. Welcome back removing negatraits on a double. But unfortunately I think this may be too powerful for vampires (and maybe even ogres). Vampires without blood lust are awesome.
4. I understand the downplaying of blitz and perfect defence. I would be interested on whether this effects racial win percentages as I think some races benefit from these results more than others.
Matthueycamo



Joined: May 16, 2014

Post   Posted: Jun 10, 2016 - 11:20 Reply with quote Back to top

mister__joshua wrote:
Cheers for the feedback chaps. I'll try and respond to it all.

@matthueycamo: The Kick-off stuff. I think the changes make the kick-off more interesting. The idea is to encourage risk for reward. Currently teams rarely kick anywhere but the central square (unless they have a kicker). If there's a chance that a bounce will give you the ball people will try and risk shorter kicks etc.

The overtime rules were some of WhatBall's that I left in. I read it and thought it sounded good, but haven't thought too much about it tbh.


I just don't see the risk. Espechally in the case of overtime it seems to just be reward. I look at it and think would I ever not try it? Probably not because if it does not come off I won't be in any worse position than before usually.

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mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2016 - 20:41
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So, Custom Rosters have arrived!

Over the next few days I'll endeavour to create my LRB rosters as a Custom Ruleset. Once this is finished I'll look at setting up the league for anyone who wants to try them out.

As the rosters all have to be created manually, this may take a while.

Cheers

Josh

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cowhead



Joined: Oct 22, 2006

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2016 - 20:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Tell me about it. College FUMBBL will be with you shortly.

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Dach



Joined: Dec 25, 2015

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2016 - 23:31 Reply with quote Back to top

Here's a review of your full rules.

Throw-in: I like the intention but D3 is too short. Would prefer D6.

Pick-up: Uncontested rule isn't needed. Why everyone need to be 2+ to pick-up is beyond me. Kickoff Return boost seem enough.

Wizard: Wizard price still 150k? This is not clear in the pdf. Does hiring a wizard add 150k to the value of your team for opponent levellers? Also if no one hire wizard, opponent can't take it from levellers, do you want to remove wizard from the game?

Niggling: I feel adding the +1 game to miss next game will add to people booting player out as soon as possible. From a fluff point of view this is great. But rulewise this is unneeded.
Even more so than niggling player don't get minus value.

Peaked: Really good stuff!!! maybe start the table at 3+ instead of 4+... dunno. Getting an experienced player peaked on anything more than double 1 is harsh.

Big hand: Automatic success in BB, that's a no! The current skill rule is fine.

Catch: Would rename to Ball Handling or Dexterous.

Death Roller: This is unclear... "Every block count as foul for the purpose of sending off" Does that mean the Death roller get +1 to armor roll for every block he make and add his strenght too? Does that mean for every double on armor he make he can get send off? Both?

Block: If dodge get optional, block should be too.

Kick-off return: Remove the automatic success on high-kick, again that's a no in BB. Or you can give him another +1 to catch instead.

Pass block: Conflict with Diving Catch, who get priority on a inaccurate pass?

Shadowing: The free block/stab feel too much, even more that you buffed stab.

Wild Animal: 3+ is uncalled for when Bone head or Very stupid doesn't get changed... Need to stay 4+. They also all get +1 AV. Too much buff.

Vampire rosters: Dunno maybe re-roll at 60k, don't think they need more buff. They can lose blood lust now.

NB: - Inspiration description is missing some parts?!?
- Wizard and player down? It's in or not... not clear in the pdf.
- Throw Team-Mate, This part need to be striked. "(i.e., he cannot land on more than one player)"

Overall, this is great. Would totally play that.
Traul



Joined: Jun 09, 2013

Post   Posted: Jun 20, 2016 - 02:28 Reply with quote Back to top

There seems to be a typo in the alternate Chaos dwarf roster: the bull has its skills/cost in red and the explanation text says you changed something to it, but the profile is the same.
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