Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
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Jul 18, 2015 - 03:40 |
 
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It's gonna sound weird after my last blog (and the beating that inspired it), but it's something I've had in mind for quite some time, and the event didn't inspire that post.
Before I start, let me state a few points:
- All the teams ain't equal, rosters in Blood Bowl ain't balanced, and that's a good thing. Some are meant to be more challenging than others, and I love it. I don't believe in narrowing the tiers.
- I do believe that changes shouldn't be made to make teams more successful. The win / loss ratio doesn't matter. What matters is how frustrating some teams can be. If a team would be made less successful, but also less frustrating in the process, I'd vote for it.
Fine. Let's talk about pygmies now. It's the only Leeg roster I've really played, and as shows my record (31/11/3) as I'm writing this, it really matches my play style. Thanks again for suggesting me to pick that roster btw.
Pros:
- They're made for conservative coaches. No SW. No useless and random rolls. The BG are loners, which makes them roadblockers / guards, but that's pretty much it.
- With 6 MA6+ players, including both big guys, they're one of the most mobile team around. I can't remember how many games I've won by flanking my opponent with the eagles and the Krox. Really, if you don't watch your back versus them (literally), you're going to lose the game.
- They're amazing at positioning. Mass shadowing can really screw your opponent. Combined with #2, it makes them the Leeg version of the Blitz Krieg.
Cons:
- They're often outbashed. The stats of my main team speak for themselves: TD Diff: 57 (86 - 29) Cas Diff: -13 (114/39/14 - 117/41/22). Still, it's fine considering how good they are at positioning.
- There's a treasury issue. Alligators and Jaguars ain't delivered with Dodge, which make them quite vulnerable, especially the AV6 Jags. But even Alligators... AV8 Thick Skull sounds like god mode... it's not. I use them as road blocks, and I have to replace one of them every 2 games. They're cheap, but it also means you have to be really lucky to develop one. As for the Jags... The rookies die way too often, and they cost a lot to replace. Really, it can consume all your treasury. It's bad to the point it's getting frustrating at times, which is why I thing something has to be fixed.
Here is what I propose (again, feel free to discuss):
- Decrease by 10k the price of Jaguars, increase by 10k the price of Eagles. You want all positionals anyway, so it won't change your TV, but since Eagle are your primary scorers, they're also your apo's favourites and survive longer. That would help with your treasury. Again, Pygmies are meant to die, but not so often you can't replace your positionals.
- Give Dodge to Jaguars. Alligators are fine without it, but seriously, Jags need it, and they can't get it before theit 3rd skill (if you don't roll a double). And since they don't have it, they don't live long enough to get a third skill.And when you compare them to the other teams' blitzers, really, that isn't a huge buff.
Cheers, thanks for your time. |
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GLN 17 is out!
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jul 18, 2015 - 03:56 |
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I think you aren't considering the skill access. You really want to skill those gators up to dodge, mb. Then they're something.
Same with Jags, you need to blodge them up. If anything, I'd like to see them with dauntless instead of sprint. |
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Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
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Jul 18, 2015 - 04:01 |
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It doesn't matter if they don't survive long enough for that (and they don't).
EDIT - But yeah, Sprint has been useful once in 50 games, Claw... Never? But it doesn't matter, really, that's gimmick skills. The difficulty to rebuild the team after the beating that occurs every few games bothers me more. |
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GLN 17 is out!
Last edited by Kam on %b %18, %2015 - %04:%Jul; edited 2 times in total |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jul 18, 2015 - 04:04 |
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Gators maybe, and they're hard to skill, but they're dirt cheap and have the av8, TS (ok with stunty).....Jags should do if you look after them. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jul 18, 2015 - 04:11 |
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Claw a gimmick skill? Once you have block on him, you can set up -2d on big guys. If they get dauntless, then big guys are a real target.
Personally, I'd say this: Blockle MB is broken in Stunty. It worse the CPOMB. I don't take and I think because of this, I'm not obliged to face it unless I fancy it. But yeah, mostly I'm on the losing side of cas battles, but with a big roster, you always have some cards up your sleeve. |
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Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
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Jul 18, 2015 - 14:35 |
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In the leeg, yeah Claw is pretty bad. It only works on BG and on the occasional AV8 players. It would be indeed a bit better with Dauntless, but you're not going to take it before Block, Tackle, Dodge, or the +Stat / doubles you're gonna roll. Which means you will never get it because the Jaguar will die before (if, of course, you're facing blackle / MB teams). 
And if it was a starting skill? Yeah, that would make them a little bit better. But I'm not for making Pygmies (or any other team) better. I'm for making them less frustrating where it applies.
And on a side-note, going after Big Guys with a Dauntless Jaguar would be an horrible idea. It's a 4+ to pass the Dauntless roll, and the Jaguar is gonna get squashed on the next turn if he doesn't take him out. Really, you want to blitz a key player instead. BG generally ain't (and they can easily be contained anyway). |
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GLN 17 is out!
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Sigmar1
Joined: Aug 13, 2008
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Jul 18, 2015 - 18:50 |
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It would seem that with a record of 31/12/3, Pygmies are working out quite well you just as they are.
Every stunty team gets mauled and has to rebuild occassionally. Pygmies only really suffer if a Krox goes down.
I agree that Gators are nigh worthless as they just don't survive long. And Jags with neither Block or Dodge to start makes them difficult to keep around as well. Sprint is also generally worthless, as you just can't take Sure Feet until AT LEAST 51 SPPs...and I've never had one last that long. I like the Claw however, as there's always those damn Mechs and Stars (like Igor, Lorebass and Shadow) to deal with. |
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Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges! |
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Antithesisoftime
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
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Jul 18, 2015 - 19:06 |
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Forget block or dodge on the Jags
If you're really concerned about their survivability, just bump their AV from 6 to 7. |
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Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
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Jul 18, 2015 - 20:09 |
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AV7 wouldn't help much. I mean... Gators have AV8 and Thick Skull, yet they die so often that I'm seriously considering replacing at least one of them with a regular Pygmy for the Dodge skill. AV8 is cool. But escaping a block is better. 
@ Siggie: Again, it's not about making them better or not. I'm simply pointing out an aspect of the team I find kinda frustrating (and eventually asking for more feedback from other P coaches). Indeed, they're mostly fine as they are.
However, I don't agree on the rebuilding part. Yeah, you have to rebuild every 10 games, and I'm fine with having my players killed repetitively. However, I don't think the rebuilding should be a pita. If you take my other Pigmy team for instance, I've had to play with loners and without all the positionals for several games after one of those beatings. Really, that takes dedication. Changing the price of Jags and Eagles as proposed earlier would probably help with that. So would giving Dodge to Jags.
Don't get me wrong: my intent wasn't to make a fuss: again, they're mostly fine. But I do think that would make them more fun to play as well, and by all means, that wouldn't be a big deal when you look at the other teams positions. |
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GLN 17 is out!
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jul 20, 2015 - 07:25 |
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I love the team as it is. I like that they play regular blood bowl, and that makes for a different style of match when people play against them. They have to sit down and think about tactics.
I think TV works REALLY well in Stunty. Especially as we sent with 5ks. Sure there are frustrating games, but I don't find the team frustrating.
Some teams most dangerous players are the big guys, and hard to keep out of the game. Strigs and CFlings they can be. If you have a block jag, it's sometimes worth going for the -2D on a big guy. Synergywise I'd give the Jags daunts and take away sprint. However Sprints worked for me on a few occasions where a coach has totally missed it, in fact now I often deliberately stop a jag one square too short of a TD, due to coaches missing the sprint skill so often.
Again for the price, I think Gators are gold, if you can get one to 16spp. |
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WhatBall
Joined: Aug 21, 2008
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Dec 08, 2015 - 21:09 |
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Ok, I am 18 games in on Pygmies now, and good lord, the Jags with no Dodge and AV6 are terrible. Even with G access. Once they start skilling up the G traits, they are into the realm of other nasty teams with Blockle as well. Unless someone can convince me otherwise, I am going to put Dodge on the Jags as a default skill.
We've discussed this a few times, time to try it I think. They just don't make sense as an agile Stunty player, with all the other less agile types with Dodge. |
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RollingDice
Joined: Oct 24, 2015
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Dec 08, 2015 - 21:27 |
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A skill I found useful was tackle. It makes the gators and jags bashy as hell, and lets them level up relatively easy to try and access survivability. Just my opinion, I know tackle isnt the greatest skill in the world, but in stunty it works wonders |
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Kalamona
Joined: Apr 21, 2005
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Dec 08, 2015 - 22:21 |
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Not as if they dont have access to it, you can take dodge at 16 spp, and have a block/dodge player. Increase the av to 7 instead. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Dec 08, 2015 - 23:17 |
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Well the skill pretty quickly, compared to gators. Personally, I haven't really had an issue with them, as it's key to get them skilled asap. So you should skill them in 1 or 2 games.
I'd rather see them have dauntless, but if you do give them dodge maybe take the sprint off of them. |
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ErobererZim
Joined: Dec 19, 2009
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Dec 09, 2015 - 00:19 |
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Im with u, I like them tooo but there be so squischi, with al the AV6, there getting Bombt easy, Saw nearly autohit the Armor and when there get hit there went pretty fast from the Game. And its pretty hard having 6 Players without Dodge at start on the pitch, also LOS has Dodge and rest went pretty fast on the ground and/more often from the pitch. I think Aligators "can be great" when there can get some skills, but the Way till there have no skills there be only the worst stuntys in the Game. Dodge is a far better Protection as AV8 and TS. There goes to often down and with STR2 ever Dude have a 1D vs them with high chances that he goes down.
Im not sure what is the Job of the Jags, for me with Claw and a meant Blitzer of the Team is Hit and Run but there cant good Run away cause no Dodge, and when there Stay on front, there cripplet and RiPt pretty fast away for a high cost player to hard. And for the flavour, there be Jags, also when something can Dodge than a supple, agile and pretty strong Cat (it has the stronges mouth of al Cats, more Stronger as Tigers) and there fight alone. Ther be nearly the best Pretators on earth. What me give another Idea, why not made them
0-1 Jaguar Warrior Shadowing, Claw, 6/3/3/7 or
0-1 Jaguar Warrior Shadowing, Dodge, Claw, Dauntless, Sure Feet 6/2/4/6 G,S,A
cause he represent the Leader of the folk, and gaint the Jag. Skull as trophy in an 1vs1 fight vs an Jaguar with a knife. |
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