Crook666
Joined: Oct 16, 2012
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 Posted:
Oct 22, 2015 - 10:06 |
 
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Hello guys.
I have recently made my comeback in Stunty after a long time spent in Ranked, and it was great, and I want to share here some thoughts I have to try and make Stunty a division with more coaches, more games played, in other words to help Stunty growing up as I really think this is what makes FUMBBL unique. Think about it: we can play BB on tabletop and even on Cyanide, but we can play these crazy, funny, fantastic Stunty teams only here. So we should "invest" on it, make it big. It is already great, but why? I will share you my opinion on Stunty based on thousands of games I played:
Stunty is obviously more fun than normal BB.
Stunty is better balanced than normal BB. In the normal you have some overpowered teams, really broken IMO, like Amazons and Chaos. Stunty teams are designed perfectly and they can be fixed easily because we do not have to cope with too many rules. Think about Squig Herders: they were overpowered once, then they have been nerfed and now they're still strong, but balanced in the overall of the league.
Stunty teams have an amazing fluff. Each roster can suit your style of play and personality, skills and negtraits are designed to perfectly resemble the fluff.
Stunty coaches are better sport. You don't find cherrypickers in Stunty, everyone plays for fun yet they are competitive, generally speaking is always a pleasure to play against Stunty coaches.
So... this is already great. What can we do to make him greater? Here some ideas:
1) More tournaments. People they want tournaments. They want to train teams for tournaments and join them , win something, feel the thrill of the competition. Three recurring Stunty majors (say, one each 4 months) would increase the numbers of teams and games played I think.
2) New major formats. The Stunty Cup is a great major, then we can think about more funny major formats for other tournaments to add. I personally do not like the Necromiser's format. We could propose new majors, I had an idea based on the Ulthuan Invitational: two brackets, the "secret weapons" bracket (Forest Gobs, Cheaters, Chaos Flings, Horrors, Gnomes, Skryre, Snotlings) and a "fair play" bracket (Albion Fae, Pro Flings, Skinks, Gnoblars, Nurglings, Eshin, Pygmy, Strigoyan, Squigs).
3) Meta leagues. Time ago we played 2 meta leagues, S.P.L.A.T. and Stunty Leeg Arbitrary Mahyem. These were allowed by admins and were great fun, as I said I think everyone wants to go competitive in Stunty, so we could have meta leagues again what do you think?
4) Buff Pro Flings: this should be done IMO as PF are the less competitive team, mainly because the lack of G access and they are both squishy and slow so they don't win (they were the only team nobody brought in the latest Stunty Cup). A way to buff them would be giving G access to Mootguards (they are guards after all, so they are supposed to block people)I think this simple change would improve them a lot.
5) New teams. I know including new rosters takes a lot of work and time so I am not pressing anyone here. But think about how many good rosters proposals we have and what Stunty could become if we throw 2 or 3 new teams in the carnage at the same time! We can test them for a while in test division(I volunteer to test) and we can always nerf/buff/change them if we find there is some problem. Obviously I am aware of the amount of work this would require by the admins so as I said there's no rush, we could just slowly start the process with some kind of deadline and the coaches could help in the job.
Well sorry for the long post. I really think Stunty has great potential and hope some of these proposals will start a discussion, to see if this great league can become even greater. Thanks if you went on reading until here. Have a nice day and keep Stunty folks! |
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Roland
Joined: May 12, 2004
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Oct 22, 2015 - 10:16 |
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IMO, Pro Flings have too many positionals with too many skills...
the team also has too few trees... |
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Crook666
Joined: Oct 16, 2012
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Oct 22, 2015 - 10:20 |
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yes that is a point too, maybe 2 trees would be better as well |
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m0gw41
Joined: Jun 12, 2012
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Oct 22, 2015 - 10:57 |
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Pretty much agree with most of that, I think getting some meta-leegs back up and running would be great, particularly ones that encourage coaches to play using the more uncommon races, its been better recently but still a bit of a sea of Gnomes, Skyre, Cflings and Cheaters. It must bore people a bit to always see those very bashy teams, it does me.
I've been driven most to play Stunty during SPLAT and MUSSL seasons, and more recently to fill the grid (come out you eshin and skinks!!!) but you can definitely see an upswing in game numbers before and during a stunty tournament (not just tournament games, there are more looking for casual games too).
I would suggest moving the Pro Fling tweak arguments to another thread so this one can focus on how to increase Stunty Leeg participation. |
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easilyamused
Joined: Jun 06, 2008
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Oct 22, 2015 - 11:02 |
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Have no fear, Stunty tournaments will be getting more of a push going forward.
Just a few things that need to ironed out behind the scenes first, as always though RL takes priority for the guys running Stunty. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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I still think the Exploding Cup is the best tournament on FUMBBL. Everything about it is great. Format, style, character. I played the SC for the first time this year, but it's not as fun as the EC for me. |
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"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude
Mr. J's LRB7 / Forum |
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Crook666
Joined: Oct 16, 2012
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Oct 22, 2015 - 11:23 |
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| easilyamused wrote: | Have no fear, Stunty tournaments will be getting more of a push going forward.
Just a few things that need to ironed out behind the scenes first, as always though RL takes priority for the guys running Stunty. |
happy to hear that easilyamused! |
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Roland
Joined: May 12, 2004
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Oct 22, 2015 - 11:29 |
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automated Meta group points calculation preferred... |
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azzie
Joined: Jul 28, 2011
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Oct 22, 2015 - 11:47 |
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I must admit I would like to see a return of CRP flings and gobbos to Stunty Leeg (I also have no doubt that is probably becasue I am missing something!), but I think they offer transitional rosters for those dipping their toes in Leeg.
My thoughts on Pro Flings are many, various and probably unhelpful. I love the little blighters, but - as has been noted - that should be for a shiny new thread.
I love the meta-gaming side of Stunty Leeg (hence MUSSL and the Incomphresive Stuntypedia Obscura) and would be delighted to see a new metagroup like SPLAT or MUSSL starting up. The joy of not having League play in Stunty is is allows us to come up with unusual formats for metagroups, I thing we should embrace not bemoan.
For the avoidance of doubt, this is not a "somebody should do something cool" post, if anyone has ideas for metagroups or Leeg promotion, I am very happy to help out! |
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azzie
Joined: Jul 28, 2011
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Oct 22, 2015 - 11:49 |
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| Roland wrote: | | automated Meta group points calculation preferred... |
The problem with automated points calculation is that it requires both someone to do the coding and someone to do the running, we seem to have trouble enough getting either  |
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The Incomprehensive Stuntypedia Obscura, home of obscure Stunty Leeg records.
Secret League Top Lists. |
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luckyjim12
Joined: Aug 29, 2012
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| Posted:
Oct 22, 2015 - 11:49 |
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Completely agree with Crook. Stunty is more fun but the things I look forward to mostly are the tournaments and the metaleagues. Currently busying myself with filling the grid but an excuse to bring out the old favourites for something like SPLAT would be great.
I also really like the naughty (weapons) v nice (no weapons) idea.
My idea that I was pondering the other day was a rating algorithm just for stunty which not only took into account victory but also awarded points for other things: deaths caused, deaths endured, TTMs etc. No idea how possible this would be but it would be nice to see a list of the best Stunty coaches.
Long live Stunty! |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Oct 22, 2015 - 12:04 |
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Yah I've never taken part in the Necromiser. Maybe if the powers that be don't want to replicate the team format from the WCWU in R or B maybe they could try it out in Stunty? |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Oct 22, 2015 - 14:05 |
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Well there is a synergy to the Stunty Tournaments right now. I didn't like it at first, but 2 years down the line, I've come to think the line up is pretty clever. I think Shadow was the brains behind the calendar.
I'm not going to comment on the OP's points that I agree with (which is a lot) as there's little point. So don't take it too negatively that I'm picking up on the ones I don't agree with.
Balance: Agree and disagree on this. Yeah we have the ability to fine tune, which LRB doesn't have any more. So we can minutely tune. However the rosters aren't more balanced in Stunty than CRP and aren't meant to be. Skink/Eshin have totally different optimum TV than Nurgle/Snotlings (as an example).
However I think Stunty is working much better with TV than the CRP rosters, which makes a difference.
We have 4 Majors already as such. EC, NN, FCC and the SC; the problem is and it's always been and always will be I guess. How many individuals have the talent, willing to give up their time and are reliable. It's so few, and they tend to get burnt out because they tend to get all the work until they're burnt out and some new guys take their place. Instead of a lot of guys taking a lot of jobs. Take Easilyamused, he is one of (the in my opinion) busiest gorilla and now he's head of tournaments. This is on top of any other roles he's performing on the site, which I am sure there are. So if the tournaments aren't regular, you'll have to be patient. Both Shadow and WB have improved the division massively, and now with EA it should get better.
Saying that, something new and exciting would be nice. I'd love to see an official League Format for example. Small or Open leagues with Smack type status.
With Meta Leagues, only one person's views count and that's WB. He Yays or Nays them. Staff follow his decisions. Christer follows his decisions (unless it would be negative for the site, in which case there'd be an overall). WB is anti any meta group that dictates who you would play. Meta groups that compile scoring are of course fine.
PF's buff on the PF thread, but you're trying to play teams equally at equal TVs. PFs were never meant to be a top high TV team. A big no to the G access. But buff, yes.
One of the things that Stunty has, is that all the icons were redesigned. Pat made the original icons and technically Nick Kelsch improved them. Technically WB has moved it on another level and Mr Furious has added another way to work on them. So, with this new level of technically improved icons and different ways of colouring, we've ended up with a vastly superior set of icons to what we had.
Saying that, there's a lot of work involved in getting one team off the ground. Idea, fluff behind the idea, roster design, character design, icon design etc etc
3 at the same time is being overly ambitious by a fair stretch. I think we actually need to tweak a couple of the icon sets already available. Albion are using the old Fairy set, and if Woodland came to be in the future, they'd need to be a clearer difference. The Skaven as well need some work. I did tweak Eshin, however I'm not sure or can't remember if the changes were view positively.
I'd like to see Goblins and Halflings re-added. I'm not sure they'd have to be totally CRP. Maybe a nod to old rosters? Flings being able to take trees or ogres, and a buyable chef maybe?
Goblins would be a bit too similar to cheaterz possibly.......
I'd like to see it, but it was a definitive decision by past commissioners to remove them. |
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m0gw41
Joined: Jun 12, 2012
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Oct 22, 2015 - 14:36 |
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I think some kind of team tournament could be really nice, team play gets a nice buzz going, some banter and some more coach interaction: each team having one team from say 4 categories.
Saws and Claws:
Nurglings, Squigs, Chaos Flings, Strigoyan,
Bombers and Contraptions:
Horrors, Gnomes, Skryre, Cheaters
Stabbers and Stalkers:
Forest Gobs, Skinks, Eshin, Pygmy
Titchies and Weaklings:
Albion Fae, Pro Flings, Gnoblars, Snotlings
As for the tournament scene, I think the SC and EC are great. The FCC I would like so see some kind of race restriction in each qualifier so you get a nice balance in the KOs. The NN I am not such a big fan of, probably as I don't have the time or patience to play with the same team over and over again, but I like the fluff and death tracking that goes along with it.
I should say I very much appreciate the time and effort the stunty admins and meta-leeg organisers have put in over the years, is there some way to split the effort into smaller chunks and advertise these out so that the community can help out more and keep things consistent? I couldn't commit to running an entire tournament scene or run a whole group but I would be willing to help out with bits and bobs as they come up. Hopefully then those guys become more like managers rather than having to do all the donkey work themselves. |
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shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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Oct 22, 2015 - 22:39 |
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Given that I'm the tournament guy, I'll say this...
| Crook666 wrote: | | 1) More tournaments. People they want tournaments. They want to train teams for tournaments and join them , win something, feel the thrill of the competition. Three recurring Stunty majors (say, one each 4 months) would increase the numbers of teams and games played I think. |
3 Stunty tournaments on an annual basis sounds like a great idea!
I think we should come up with some names for these tournaments, too, while we're discussing it.
Hmm...the first one...hmmm, it can be hosted by...hmm, how about the Goblin Cheaters? They're a longstanding staple in Stunty...ok, sooo...if Goblin Cheaters were to host a tournament, hmm..something something weapons, something dirty...
How about the Exploding Cup?
Ok, that's one.
Now for a second one...how about something unique, to take advantage of Halloween & Day of the Dead? hmm...how about..hmm..
How about a Necromiser's Nightmare?
That's a great name...I think we can do that...
Third, well, any respectable division needs to have a yearly champion. That champion would probably want some kind of trophy to prove how cool he is?...
How about the Stunty Cup?
Great ideas!
Oh...
wait...
We already have 3 annual tournaments going on, called the Exploding Cup, the Necromiser's Nightmare and the Stunty Cup...
Good job, team!
| Crook666 wrote: | | 2) New major formats. The Stunty Cup is a great major, then we can think about more funny major formats for other tournaments to add. I personally do not like the Necromiser's format. We could propose new majors, I had an idea based on the Ulthuan Invitational: two brackets, the "secret weapons" bracket (Forest Gobs, Cheaters, Chaos Flings, Horrors, Gnomes, Skryre, Snotlings) and a "fair play" bracket (Albion Fae, Pro Flings, Skinks, Gnoblars, Nurglings, Eshin, Pygmy, Strigoyan, Squigs). |
But seriously...I think I can safely say that Stunty has some of the more unique major tournament environments. Aside from the annual "everyone in the pool" scrum of the Stunty Cup, we have a swiss tournament, and a points-based tournament. All 3 of our tournaments do very well for themselves on population. While we certainly don't draw the massive numbers that Ranked or Blackbox get, we never have, and we never will. That's just a fact that people need to understand.
I don't shoot for headcount when I run tournaments. I shoot for making sure the people who do participate enjoy their time. Fun is more important than quantity.
Additionally, I'm not keen on "Ranked, jr." tournaments, nor "Blackbox the III" based tournaments. Stunty has its own unique personality, and I'm not going to water it down into a smaller version of other divisions. This division stands on its own two feet just fine, and it doesn't deserve to be a miniscule version of R/B.
Not to mention, I'm not going to change the formats to major tournaments because you, personally, don't like them :-p
--j
ps, FCC is a weird anomaly that I'd like to see get off the ground and stable. This is not a request to do a massive think tank on a "community-designed" tournament, so please don't let that comment derail this isn't "Hey, design a tournament the way I want it!!". It is appreciated. |
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