fidius
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
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 Posted:
Nov 09, 2015 - 18:55 |
 
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It would be a bit weird that Humans would get a ST4 player while Dwarfs would not.
Personally I think there's a place for a "defensive Dauntless" skill. Call it Staunch (S): equalize 1 point of Strength diff on a 4+ (2 pts = 5+, 3pts = 6+). Slap it on a 0-2 Human 5329 blocker... |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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Nov 09, 2015 - 19:02 |
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| huff wrote: | | Mr_Foulscumm wrote: | | No. Chaos Warriors are not really human. |
Oh... Well they really arnt the blocker type with their 3ag anyways... Let Chaos keep their 3AG strength guy to themselves, whichever demograph the CW considers themselves. |
That's not what I meant. I mean Chaos Warriors were human, but not any longer. Their extra strength and indeed their armor is a gift from the gods. From a fluff perspective and team flavor it makes no sense to give the human team a CW type of player.
Also, I don't actually think the human roster needs the boost. But if I had to pick a way to boost them, I'd make the Catchers St3, and that's it. 
St4 humans make no sense to me. |
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SirIndigo
Joined: Sep 10, 2015
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Nov 09, 2015 - 19:10 |
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I'd like to see some change in the human roster, the fluff really suggests they should be tier 1; but I don't think this is what it should be. I know AG4 catchers has been kicked around and that direction feels better to me. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Nov 09, 2015 - 19:25 |
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Would those have big belly, and eat doughnut? :p |
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Squiglet
Joined: Aug 13, 2015
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Nov 09, 2015 - 19:29 |
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not St4 but 5329 Block and Tackle possibly (like slightly stretched Dorfs) |
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Roland
Joined: May 12, 2004
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Nov 09, 2015 - 19:56 |
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Give linemen S access  |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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Nov 09, 2015 - 20:58 |
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| SirIndigo wrote: | | I know AG4 catchers has been kicked around and that direction feels better to me. |
They are humans, not elves. |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Nov 09, 2015 - 20:59 |
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NO.
they are humans. stop messing with them. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Nov 09, 2015 - 23:25 |
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| Mr_Foulscumm wrote: | | SirIndigo wrote: | | I know AG4 catchers has been kicked around and that direction feels better to me. |
They are humans, not elves. |
I think this is fine, and that maybe all catchers should be AG4. It's a better fix than extra AV which messes with the whole ma/av feel.
All catchers used to be AG4 and the Slann catcher is a nod back to that. There shouldn't be 4 however, so..... |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Nov 09, 2015 - 23:30 |
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| huff wrote: | Chaos Warrior thread got me thinking....
I'm thinking Chaos Warrior stat line, sans the mutation access of course. And up to 2.
This may be the Buff they need to return to the Reavers glory days. |
The only thing that most of the threads and blogs have me thinking at the moment is "Is it a school holiday period and when is it going to end?"
I think it's a fair shout to be honest, because of the reason you mentioned. Humans being Jacks of all trades. When 3rd ed came out, I'd wager they tried to fit blockers into the roster, or at least thought about it, then decided against it.
You'd have to drop 2 of the catchers though of course. (see ag4 upgrade instead of av8 above).
As for stats, no chance a CW, that's too good. Even ma5 av9 is too good. As also mentioned, CWs are no longer humans as such. This is to say they aren't humans in armour. They're super humans in a super armour.
So I think you have the choice of making them straight BoBs (best in my mind) or drop a point of AV for a point of MA 5 4 2 8, but that doesn't work well with a blocker.
Let's not go down the road of attaching skills. We really need to get away from this fan based add on that's affecting BB. Blockers were never meant to start with skills. They're big and stupid and best used for taking punches.
Oh and lastly let's not get confused with players named blockers that aren't blockers. The Dwarf and the Bret were never intended to be 'blockers', they've just been renamed for ease, which causes positional identity problems. |
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Bazakastine
Joined: Mar 21, 2014
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Nov 10, 2015 - 00:03 |
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Humans are in an interesting spot and it makes sense that they are often brought up in this way.
On the one hand the fluff says they should be better than they are and it incentives improvement in some way.
On the other hand they are supposed to be jack of all trades which limits how good they should be at any one thing.
Do they really need more S access? Are they supposed to be a bashy team with 7 guards or mighty blow players on the pitch?
Do they need AG 4 catcher? Should they be dodging and out maneuvering players like a slightly slower skaven?
Both those buffs move them too far one way or the other for me when they need to stay in the middle.
That really leaves a catcher boost of either AV8 or ST3 left for them and both those have there issues. AV8 may be too minor to do anything and throws off the catcher have AV7 thing. ST3 makes them clearly playable and improves the team immensely but may throw off the roles within the team.
I dont know that there is a right answer to this so I like to think of humans this way. They are a group that is simply not as naturally talented as most of the teams they play but they work hard and learn good skills to make them able to pull amazing upsets sometime. In a purely FUMBBL view Strider has proven that humans can climb the mountain. Of course that doesn't matter the majority of the time.
When it comes down to it I say they are humans and they are good as they are. Clearly they have a huge following so are they really the team we should be looking at for change? |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Nov 10, 2015 - 00:09 |
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| Bazakastine wrote: |
Do they need AG 4 catcher? Should they be dodging and out maneuvering players like a slightly slower skaven? |
Yes. There basic stat line is comparable. 6 3 3 8 to 7 3 3 7. All their players adhere to this stat line, bar the agile player.
Where as the Skaven's get an ag4, the humans do not. There is no reason looking at the basic of each race that the most agile positional on both teams shouldn't be ag4.
I do agree though, that there's a good chance of them being overpowered like this. Dropping the ogre is an option. I play teams like this and they're ok. |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Nov 10, 2015 - 00:22 |
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| Mr_Foulscumm wrote: | | No. Chaos Warriors are not really human. |
They are or at least originally were. They were humans who had their armour "welded" to their body by their chaos god's magic.
Edit: You kind of said the same above though I'm not sure on the strength point. |
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fidius
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
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Nov 10, 2015 - 00:33 |
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To Baz's point, the main things they have going for them are Speed, and Strength access on speedy Blitzers. They are not "average" speed, they are among the fastest in the game. And they currently play fairly bashy, only because bashy works very well. In other words their main features are contrary to their stated fluff. I'd rather see an effective, truly adaptable roster that fits the concept, than the current one that really only succeeds where it runs contrary to their description.
If POMB is ever dumbed down it will hit Humans hardest, and at that point their passing game will need to be improved. Maybe that means Catchers keep AG3 but get Diving Catch. Personally I'd take their speed down a notch as well, and replace it with more 'character' type skills like Pro and Dauntless. |
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uzkulak
Joined: Mar 30, 2004
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Nov 10, 2015 - 01:07 |
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Catchers start with diving catch and the throwers with accurate, that would work well enough, if you dont like ag4 catchers. I cant see the point of making humans bashier, they are already very effective at hurting other hybrid teams and elves, but are much faster than any genuine bash teams so fit nicely in that middle ground. |
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Gnomes are trash
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