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Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Nov 23, 2015 - 23:42 Reply with quote Back to top

10AV dark elf blitzers are da cool. Especially with jump up.

also anything that piles on can use +av, as it helps against the fouling and you're immune to claw on the ground.

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harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 23, 2015 - 23:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Semitence wrote:
Or just claws are -2 av, to a min of 7. Don't know why AV on an 8, instead of a 9.
I presume you mean it's the same odds as rolling a double excluding +ST. I feel like double should be more common than stats though. A 9 feels more elegant (9/10/11/12) being the stat rolls.


Yeah, I was thinking this too. It's also better than the current straight AV7.

Actually I hadn't thought that carefully about the % of rolling an 8 or a double. I guessed they were the same, but now see an 8s a 5/36 and a double a 6/36. Maybe I had eliminated double 6s. Anyway it still works for me, maybe even better actually. Instead of a 9 because just like a 10 you have the chance to turn down a double or not.
Done25



Joined: Nov 24, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2015 - 18:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Semitence wrote:
Or just claws are -2 av, to a min of 7. Don't know why AV on an 8, instead of a 9.
I presume you mean it's the same odds as rolling a double excluding +ST. I feel like double should be more common than stats though. A 9 feels more elegant (9/10/11/12) being the stat rolls.
I like this idea. Keeps it valuable against the "normal" range of 8~9 AV, but doesn't invalidate the people with 10~11 AV.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2015 - 18:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Done25 wrote:
Semitence wrote:
Or just claws are -2 av, to a min of 7. Don't know why AV on an 8, instead of a 9.
I presume you mean it's the same odds as rolling a double excluding +ST. I feel like double should be more common than stats though. A 9 feels more elegant (9/10/11/12) being the stat rolls.
I like this idea. Keeps it valuable against the "normal" range of 8~9 AV, but doesn't invalidate the people with 10~11 AV.


Oh yes, wont somebody think of the poor AV10 players of which there are like a half dozen in the game, who usually are ST 4+. Nevermind the ubiquitous AV7 players who would have their armor reduced to 5.
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2015 - 18:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Having +AV means the player cannot have their armour reduced below 8 by claw would be a sensible improvement (presuming the +AV gives them at least AV8). It would mean a Pro Elf with +1 armour still has the same armour as Treeman with +1 armour against Claw though. So maybe having claw can only reduce av10 to 8 would be better. Meaning it only works properly on av8 and 9.

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Last edited by garyt1 on Dec 02, 2015 - 18:48; edited 1 time in total
Uedder



Joined: Aug 03, 2010

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2015 - 18:47 Reply with quote Back to top

It said to a min of 7. Av7 vould still beat claws and av8/9 would still be pummeled by it. Morg and trees might take a couple more hits tho.
harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2015 - 21:03 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
Done25 wrote:
Semitence wrote:
Or just claws are -2 av, to a min of 7. Don't know why AV on an 8, instead of a 9.
I presume you mean it's the same odds as rolling a double excluding +ST. I feel like double should be more common than stats though. A 9 feels more elegant (9/10/11/12) being the stat rolls.
I like this idea. Keeps it valuable against the "normal" range of 8~9 AV, but doesn't invalidate the people with 10~11 AV.


Oh yes, wont somebody think of the poor AV10 players of which there are like a half dozen in the game, who usually are ST 4+. Nevermind the ubiquitous AV7 players who would have their armor reduced to 5.


Errrr Read the second clause of his first sentence.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2015 - 21:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Totally missed that in the quote tree
harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2015 - 23:19 Reply with quote Back to top

The more I think about it, the more I like both points. I've always been pro the -2 AV to a min of 7 on Claw. But the more I think of it, I think moving +AV skill up, to a roll of 9 is right as well.

Both would give more incentive to taking +AV.
Matthueycamo



Joined: May 16, 2014

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2015 - 23:42 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't know if -2 to AV with claw really makes any difference, AV9 players are still usually very slow so +MA would still seem the better choice than AV10 just to be AV8 against Claw. Whilst for AV7 or 8 the players plus AV generally makes most sense when compared to taking it on higher AV players it's still pointless as it won't get you above AV7 when facing it. It would have to be -1AV to a min value of 7 before +AV was taken into account. Basically making anybody with +AV AV8 against Claw. That would be worth taking, for rats and woodies and also for players with base AV9 and above.

-1AV on all blocks to players above AV7 is still pretty powerful over 16 turns when you almost certainly have either PO, MB or both as well. That would maybe knock the nobody takes AV and CPOMB is too powerful questions on the head at the same time?
Semitence



Joined: May 18, 2013

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2015 - 23:54 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
Oh yes, wont somebody think of the poor AV10 players of which there are like a half dozen in the game, who usually are ST 4+. Nevermind the ubiquitous AV7 players who would have their armor reduced to 5.


I suspect there might be more if the above was implemented. I know I've overlooked it in the past for this reason.

Also, as mentioned if you read my post you'll see I said to a minimum of 7. So no change for the elves.
Semitence



Joined: May 18, 2013

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2015 - 23:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Matthueycamo wrote:
It would have to be -1AV to a min value of 7 before +AV was taken into account.


This is just a bad version on MB though right? Only on armour, only on armour values > 7.
PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2015 - 00:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Iam confused.

+AV negates MB

Why cant +AV resist Claw?

So claw reduces AV to 7 + AV stat upgrades.

What is the issue again?

This seems very logical to me.

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Matthueycamo



Joined: May 16, 2014

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2015 - 00:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Semitence wrote:
Matthueycamo wrote:
It would have to be -1AV to a min value of 7 before +AV was taken into account.


This is just a bad version on MB though right? Only on armour, only on armour values > 7.


Who goes for just claw? You telling me people would not take CPOMB anymore because claw is not as good? It's not an either or situation to me it's a first this then that with skills that stack devastatingly. It would still be an awesome CAS making combo just a bit less awesome to the point people might not avoid it in Ranked or be more likely to jump into box.
harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2015 - 01:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Matthueycamo wrote:
I don't know if -2 to AV with claw really makes any difference, AV9 players are still usually very slow so +MA would still seem the better choice than AV10 just to be AV8 against Claw.


That's why there were 2 changes suggested. AV moves to a 9, so moves away from a AV/MA choice.

Also there's a fair difference between AV7 and AV8.

I'm not saying it's going to be super popular, but it's going to be more popular.

Blockle or block kick Norse lino rolls a 9, you'd consider it for sure. So in that sense, a Dwarf Blocker that rolled a 9 in a claw environment.............I think there's a good chance he'd take it.
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