frogboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2007
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 Posted:
Dec 12, 2015 - 12:33 |
 
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This argument is rediculous, leave the game alone!
Claw is a chaos mutation it cuts through armour as if it weren't there, hence it reduces armour to that of an unarmoured human (thing). Strapping a few extra shoulder pads on or stuffing a box in your jock strap is not going to help here.
Mighty Blow just means that your player has been working out at the local fight club after hours or is a bit stronger than your avarge player.
Seriously, Claw teams need to remove players from the game to win. Farming SPPs for your AV9 Star Player is not a requirement to win the game, even Wood Elves loosing a Treeman doesn't mean they are going to loose the game, so stop crying and buy a new one. Or play more reserection tournaments if loosing players upsets you.
Claw is part of this great game, it keeps high AV players in check and gives an elliment of fear to the coaches controlling them. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Dec 12, 2015 - 12:45 |
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How is it? It seems logical to me. I've started putting AV on a 9 instead of a 10 and I really like it. It feels so right. And to Give AV 10s an advantage over AV9 on claw also seems logical. |
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frogboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2007
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Dec 12, 2015 - 13:13 |
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I don't agree  Claw ignores armour, simples. Teams with High AV players have advantages in other areas, like at that point, lots of guard or lots of movement or whatever it is. Imagine Norse vs Dwarfs without Claw MB Snow Troll. Dwarfs would love that match up... |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Dec 12, 2015 - 13:20 |
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Without taking a side in this particular argument, you're completely (and conveniently) missing out the fact that out of the players with claw available, a fair percentage are AV9 themselves. Some of them have thick skulls too, or even regen. And all the advantages you've just listed for "teams with high AV players".
This in turn means that clawpomb itself is "farming spp for your av9 star player". |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Dec 12, 2015 - 13:24 |
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| frogboy wrote: | | I don't agree Claw ignores armour, simples. Teams with High AV players have advantages in other areas, like at that point, lots of guard or lots of movement or whatever it is. Imagine Norse vs Dwarfs without Claw MB Snow Troll. Dwarfs would love that match up... |
Yeah but you're missing the 2 key points. I totally agree. I hate the fluff of it, but love the mechanics. Where Claw negates high armour.
However the 2 points are:
AV10 should have an advantage over AV9 with claw. That's only fair to Treemen (who really die against claw badly) and players that take AV.
Adding AV on a 10 right now is pointless. This doesn't have that much to do with claw, but we need to make AV more of an option, right now it's not used much. So giving it an advantage on claw somehow or giving it a different number on a skill roll would be better.
To me both of these are intuitive and don't really detract from the good job Claw is doing. |
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frogboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2007
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Dec 12, 2015 - 13:33 |
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Ok so i'm going to make this point here too, although is see what your saying I don't agree with it. Why should it be harder to remove players for Chaos Dwarfs. They don't compare to Orcs as they have less positionals and movement etc, Chaos are just pants when they start out etc all the teams have been designed in that way that they have strengths and advantages. If you took away Claw then how would you fix the problem you have created?
| Quote: | Your talking about changing the rules of the game, which effects more than just FUMBBL. You can't have that discussion without understand that. FUMBBL is essentially a BloodBowl simulator, so a copy of the rules from the board game. Depending on how you veiw that good or bad that means some rediulous team/player builds are possible which would never be possible in a standard table top format as you would never be able to play enough games to develop them. (i'm sure there are people out there who have do this but it must be rare). So FUMBBL is like extreme BloodBowl, Claw is a part of that, players die it's part of the game, some coaches prefere bashy teams others prefere halflings etc
FYI I think FUMBBL is great, I love BloodBowl, messing around with the rules though is dangerous and impossible to agree on almost as too many people play it is different formats, good thing is though that people still play it  |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Dec 12, 2015 - 13:53 |
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What are you talking about? You've totally missed the point. Claw is doing a good job, I certainly don't want claw removed. As for comparing rosters, I'm not going to go there.
Claw on AV9 is fine... more than fine, great in fact.
I'll say it again. AV10 shouldn't be AV7 with claw, it should be AV8. And AV skill roll needs to have more of an incentive. So either give it on a roll of a 9 or make it in someway claw impervious (personally I'm not up for that).
Neither of these detract much from claw, it's still the AV9 killer.
Of course all of this means nothing as the rules are not being changed. However from this discussion I've gained in that I now give AV on a roll of a 9 instead of a 10 and I really think it's a step forward. |
Last edited by harvestmouse on %b %12, %2015 - %13:%Dec; edited 1 time in total |
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Faulcon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Dec 12, 2015 - 13:54 |
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frogboy, why would an orc coach ever take +av when +ma is just so much better for them on basically every player? +av turning a claw hit to an 8av hit instead of 7 at least makes it barely useful. Even with something like this I expect very few av9 players would take +av because for most of them +ma (or just a regular skill) is a bigger boost.
PS: CDorfs and Chaos are both just as fast as orcs, you're talking like they can't possibly win without clawpombing all menz, maybe you should spectate a few more games. |
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frogboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2007
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Dec 12, 2015 - 15:03 |
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Ok so I missed the point of this thread, goodbye. I got redirected here from the Blog on the front page.
ClawPOMB is amazing! It's ment to be.
@Harvestmouse I heard what you said, yes AV 10 should be AV 8 I get it, I just said I don't agree, Claw negates armour. You don't have to agree with me just stating my opinion.
Then people want to take away PO and MB and stacking skills which kill players etc. It just gets too much. IMPO I like taking bashy teams because I can kill stuff easier, it part of the game? Next we should nerf tackle because it's unfair to stuntys?
Building rediulous teams is fun, it's why people play here. WMD's for example.
@Fauclcon, I don't know why any Orc coach would take either as skills are better. Orcs start with skills, and have better all round AV. So your first skill is block on a beastman mine is Gaurd on a orc blitzer your your second is block mine is MB see we are equal. It's only when teams start maxing out and getting rediulous that teams might get unbalanced. Why should I spectate more games? Have I not watched enough?
I have an opinion, sorry that offends so many people, I might not be the best coach or able to build a WMD type team, I just don't see why the rules should be changed to benifit the select few who it effects, for people like me it's fun to kill stuff, so I might be lucky enough to have a player with claw and block blah blah I forgot what I wanted to say now...
So stop being rude to people, we all entitiled to an opinion, whether you respect my silly internet profile or not! Cause if you talked to me like that in real life I would tottally just not talk to you ever again lol |
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frogboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2007
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Dec 12, 2015 - 15:12 |
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Oh that was it, I was going to say something about watching some WMD games (which I like to do sometimes) and even with them maxed out like that you don't really see the casultys you would expect, ok I'm standing by for someone to prove me wrong now with an example of a game now. But what i'm saying is its all based on dice anyway so sometimes it don't work. Just saying.
And if I've seriously offended people then I'm sorry. I just had an opinion that I felt wasn't being discussed, it's an old discussion which some of you would have heard before anyway. I hate the internet sometimes and yes it is possible that I'm wrong  |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Dec 12, 2015 - 21:00 |
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Hmmmmm you're pretty sensitive. As that's the case maybe it's not a good idea to jump into topics with a 'This argument is "ridiculous"?
Looking at the blog (which isn't very productive) and this thread which is, I can't really see where anybody has tried to offend you.
Mostly it's a case of not agreeing or not quite sure what you are on about as you appear off topic and hard to follow.
Discussing potential rule changes is good. It doesn't necessarily mean changing the rules to the entire game. It could be house ruling or potential rule changes in the future. I don't think it has anything to do with FUMBBL making it's own rules and moving away from the ruleset.......not in the main divisions anyway.
Personally, I've implemented the AV skill on a 9 and it feels so right.
To counter one of your points (and really the only one on topic here, if you're willing to listen/discuss).
| frogboy wrote: | | Claw is a chaos mutation it cuts through armour as if it weren't there, hence it reduces armour to that of an unarmoured human (thing). Strapping a few extra shoulder pads on or stuffing a box in your jock strap is not going to help here. |
| frogboy wrote: | | @Harvestmouse I heard what you said, yes AV 10 should be AV 8 I get it, I just said I don't agree, Claw negates armour. You don't have to agree with me just stating my opinion. |
Claw negates armour yes. However, is AV10 ever (it could be but right now it isn't) extra armour?
A Treeman doesn't have extra armour, and is skilling up to AV10 adding extra armour?
No, this is becoming physically tougher, which would indeed (if we're trying to work out the realism of a fantasy mechanic that doesn't make sense) give extra protection against claw. |
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uzkulak
Joined: Mar 30, 2004
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Dec 12, 2015 - 21:20 |
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+AV can still be worth it on low movement/professional blocker players like BOB or longbeards that face a lot of blocks but arent necessarily in a heavy claw environment. And of course it comes after all the basic skills. |
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frogboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2007
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Dec 12, 2015 - 22:22 |
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I think it's really clear what I've tryed to say, like other people here and on the blog your trying to make me look stupid now, come on, I've made my point (it's rediculous leave the game alone) said I don't agree with what your saying should change and you've asked me three times or whatever what I mean ? Really!?
I'm just saying that I like the game how it is.
Of course AV10 is armour, AV is also a way to explain toughness yes or tree bark or whatever and no I don't think AV 10 players should have an advantage over AV 9 players when Claw is being used. Why? Well because that's the whole point in Claw, people still take dodge even though there are tackle players out there, so all of a sudden it's unfair that someone has taken +AV and then gets killed by a player with Claw same as if it took dodge and died failing a dodge.
i think taking skills are optimum anyway, as they can't be removed unless the player dies/gets a niggle and retired. So would advise not taking AV or MV, take a skill instead. |
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sheepycollins
Joined: Sep 21, 2015
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Dec 12, 2015 - 22:25 |
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Just rolled a 6+4 on may tree, I've took the ma but if it could have made me av11 I would have thought of it, well I would if it came around again +ma massive for the tree |
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frogboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2007
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Dec 12, 2015 - 22:39 |
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| sheepycollins wrote: | | Just rolled a 6+4 on may tree, I've took the ma but if it could have made me av11 I would have thought of it, well I would if it came around again +ma massive for the tree |
Wow coincidence, but now you've given yourself an extra chance to loose your Treeman when that ClawPoMBer comes along and either kills it or you get a SI which reduces its MV, or will you loose the TV (no not Cable Vision) too?
Playing like you already lost your tree and expect it to be put down. Should have rolled a double and took Jump Up, lol that what I've been working on, how to roll doubles on que. |
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