| Poll |
| Of these, which do you prefer? |
| Variant 1, where the Daredevils lose Dodge and Pickpockets lose Right Stuff |
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7% |
[ 2 ] |
| Variant 2, where all Halflings have Dodge, Right Stuff and Stunty |
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11% |
[ 3 ] |
| Neither, the official roster is better than either |
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80% |
[ 21 ] |
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| Total Votes : 26 |
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cdassak
Joined: Oct 23, 2013
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 Posted:
Dec 02, 2015 - 07:50 |
 
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Wow, imagine where Pact would be if smallman didn't have such an impressive record with them  |
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jarvis_pants
Joined: Oct 30, 2008
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Ahh i do love a competative fling thread. Ive played a fair few fling games in my time and have a reasonable record with them 229/110/140 
And really any lack of competativeness comes down to 3 things.
Block/Tackle/MB
There is no need to buff their ag 1ttd potential that stuff should be fun last turn attempts.
As for how you combat b/t/mb well thats not so easy. The new rules for tackle not effecting right stuff players would be a big push in the right direction. But yeah failing that G access on half thing flings for 40k would be enough to make them very competative.
0-16 Halflings 30k 5 2 3 6 DRS A, GSP.
0-8 Threequarterlings 40k 5 2 3 6 DRS GA, SP.
0-2 Treeman 120k 2 6 1 10 tree stuff S, GAP.
0-8 Rerolls 60k
Anyone that thinks that this makes them too powerfull should see how long it takes to get a fling to 1 skill |
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"May Nuffle have mercy on your rolls." - St.Basher |
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Strider84
Joined: Jun 03, 2009
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| Posted:
Dec 02, 2015 - 08:46 |
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U're missing the tabletop point of view. As rookied flings and ogres are much more balanced then in high tv games. Also if i want achallenge in a local tt tourney with average tt players, i get a fair 50% chance where with tier 1 races a good coach would have about 75% edge.
So in general tiers are needed. Tourneys can then still buff with allowing more skills.
For a league environment I like the right stuff cancels tackle very much. Also what i am missing is the judoka skill for +1 on landings. Then its up to the player to see if he wants to spend tv to increase ttm probabiliy... |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Dec 02, 2015 - 09:07 |
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Flings are fine, check my pirates out below. |
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AlexHolker
Joined: Dec 02, 2015
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| Posted:
Dec 02, 2015 - 11:18 |
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| Strider84 wrote: | | Also if i want achallenge in a local tt tourney with average tt players, i get a fair 50% chance where with tier 1 races a good coach would have about 75% edge. |
You don't need Halflings to suck in order to play with a handicap, just don't spend all your inducement money. Take your 900k TV + Inducements vs your opponent's 1,000k TV + Inducements if that's what you want. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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| Garion wrote: | | Flings are fine, check my pirates out below. |
Haha. I'm sure it's accidental and casualty-caused, but if it was ever possible to minmax a fling team then that's it! 2 Legend trees, AG5 fling, Ma7 fling, DP.
ps. I agree flings are fine, just that maybe the Pirates aren't a 'common' example |
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Dunenzed
Joined: Oct 28, 2011
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| Posted:
Dec 02, 2015 - 11:33 |
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| cdassak wrote: | | Wow, imagine where Pact would be if smallman didn't have such an impressive record with them |
Those stats are post scheduler change I believe. 
Edit: What I'm enjoying from those stats is how the ARR races are doing. Go those underworld teams! |
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CCSenor
Joined: Aug 15, 2009
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| Posted:
Dec 02, 2015 - 13:21 |
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I don't get the make flings competitive thing. Why ?
They should get pummeled by the top tier teams. They're a vastly, physically inferior race. They should be mostly at the bottom of league tables and should very rarely win any Tourneys.
The idea of a couple of positionals for Flings to add more fun/variety is okay but not to make them any better able to compete with Orcs, Dorfs, etc .
The against the odds factor is what makes them so fun and challenging to coach.
It depends where you set the goalposts. Guiding Flings to a draw against a tier one team feels better than most wins and with a lot of luck and the random nature of BB you even beat 'em now and again ! |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Dec 02, 2015 - 13:29 |
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| AlexHolker wrote: | | Strider84 wrote: | | Also if i want achallenge in a local tt tourney with average tt players, i get a fair 50% chance where with tier 1 races a good coach would have about 75% edge. |
You don't need Halflings to suck in order to play with a handicap, just don't spend all your inducement money. Take your 900k TV + Inducements vs your opponent's 1,000k TV + Inducements if that's what you want. |
Hmmmmmmmmmmm I'll be honest. I think you lack experience. It's good that you are productive and looking for improvements. However as this thread has moved on, it looks to me like you aren't aware of how Flings work. Yes, they are weak; however a good player with inducements can move things to his advantage.....as long as he doesn't have weak dice.
This is to say, inducements with flings have more of an impact than what is the norm with inducements. So inflating their TV with a few skills affect things little is actually a nerf not a buff. |
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cdassak
Joined: Oct 23, 2013
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| Posted:
Dec 02, 2015 - 13:46 |
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tussock wrote:
The three joke teams; Ogre, Fling, and Goblin. If anyone wants to mess with the scheduler, they need inducements. A "fair" match for Halflings and Goblins isn't against equal TV, it's against +100 to +150 TV. Missing out on the bribes and the chef (and the useful cheap stars) that turn up so often in League and Tournament play is a big loss.
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Kam wrote:
I don't know... Sometimes it's more complicated than that. I'd rather give 100 or 150 k inducements with my Flings when my opponent is in the TV range (which varies with each roster) where that 200-300 TV (from -100 to +100) means 200 or 300 TV of Tackle, MB and PO.
If you have 1250 TV Flings, would you rather play against 1110 TV Orcs or against 1400 TV Orcs?
EDIT - However, it's quite true at very low TV. I might add that any TV < 1000 should be considered as equal to 1000, both in Ranked and Box.
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Quoting Kam from the Adressing bash in BlackBox thread, that's why no propoer quoting.
Having played flings and gobbos in Box mostly, in many games I was happy not getting any inducements than having to face 100k (e.g) of more skills or deeper bench.
It depends heavily on the specific match-up but at a certain TV range I'd take the equal TV game. Especially with flings that need at least 100k for a 'good' inducement (I end up taking the bribe instead of the chef most of the times). For goblins it's a bit different as 50k is enough for a 'good' inducement. I have induced a bribe several times, that's why most of my teams are broke. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Dec 02, 2015 - 14:21 |
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Yeah, but that is in box, where coaches play extremely bear when it comes to rerolls. In an average environment, I'm sure it is different. If not, it's a TV not working correctly thing. |
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Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
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| Posted:
Dec 02, 2015 - 16:56 |
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It's the same in Ranked, HM, except at low TV. The worst skill against Stunties is not MB, nor PO, nor even Tackle, it's Block, aka the first skill you generally pick when a rookie skills up. It pains me to quote the guy, but as Rat once said, every stunty is a blodger until you (their opponent) get Block yourself.
I've mainly played in Ranked, and when I "pick" an opponent, the number of Blockers is the first thing I check (then the number of Tacklers). I generally don't give a damn about MB, and one or two POMBers can be easilly be taken care of. 8 or 10 Blockers (including a few Tacklers), not so much.
In 666 games with Flings, I'm pretty sure I haven't played more than 10% of those with a chef, and the mojority was against impossible teams, simply because I like challenges, so I wouldn't count them. In regular matches "picked" on GF (aka matches I chose because I simply stand a chance), I'd say I have a chef every 20 games.
As for "buffing Flings, as said in zillions of similar threads: no, thank you. Some rosters are made to be more challenging than others.
AG4 Right Stuff Flings are a big no-no. |
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NerdBird
Joined: Apr 08, 2014
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| Posted:
Dec 02, 2015 - 17:15 |
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I think flings should have Thick Skull added to their stat line. Yeah they are small, but they are also stout. This would be a nice buff that would not help them out tremendously. They should also be able to hire a perma-chef to their roster. I always liked the old way of having a miniature as the coach and what not. I do have a fling team and the chef model. But I see no reason why they should be Tier 1.
We had a LOT of problems in our TT league because of Stunties. Out of 10 people (2 teams each)the one year, 6 were stunties; 3 FLings, 1 gobo, 2 Snotling teams from a GW magazine. What a disaster. Yeah, maybe flings in the hands of good coaches is not that bad but in a TT league, getting to play stunties versus new coaches is nothing more than a SPP farm. I was using Dwarfs and High Elfs as my 2 teams and there were Snots and 2 FLings in my division. After a few games my team was loaded with skills. We ended up giving only 1 SPP for hurting stunties and even then it was a mess. Rookie coaches with flings go with the game plan of TTM to score and if that fails, try and get back to it to try again.
I pleaded with the coaches not to start with these guys to no avail and then when you would smash them they would get upset....
TT gaming is entirely different than FUMBBL. You know your opponents and their teams/players, so you can plan for them and pick skills geared towards those match-ups. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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Haha. That sounds like a tabletop league I played in. My mate plays dwarfs (always) and in his division of 6 teams there were ogres and 2 goblins!  |
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"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude
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NerdBird
Joined: Apr 08, 2014
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| Posted:
Dec 02, 2015 - 17:29 |
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I didn't include the Ogre team because they were the old Ogre build that had goblins/gnoblars and were not that bad. The coach using them was quite competent anyway. |
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