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Rbthma



Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Sep 09, 2016 - 02:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Jamerson wrote:
Jip wrote:
Rbthma wrote:
I usually get matches vs. rookies in Ranked with my all-rotters and will mention the 145 Club in match. It's usually a fun match with chances on both sides, and sometimes I feel like the one cherry picked. On occasion there are coaches who get upset at every dice roll - there's not a lot you can do about that.


I take back everything joyful I said about 145; look what Rbthma and his rotters did to me in the first two turns of this game, ha! Laughing

https://fumbbl.com/ffblive.jnlp?replay=888359

Fun game though, cheers dude.


That was brutal.... Smile


All part of the learning, right. Smile

The important thing was that despite the lucky casualties on my side, you stuck it out and managed to make it a very close game even though you were down a few players. If you had made that pass, it would of been an awesome tie...and I still think you should try an elf team, it suits your play-style!
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Sep 09, 2016 - 02:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Gamefinder needs chat.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 09, 2016 - 02:59 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
Gamefinder needs chat.
Yes!

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What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
Rbthma



Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Sep 09, 2016 - 03:01 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
Gamefinder needs chat.

Yeah! +1
Lorebass



Joined: Jun 25, 2010

Post   Posted: Sep 09, 2016 - 03:34
FUMBBL Staff
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Stop bringing dead posts that were less than a page back to life, sometimes we keep track of crap like this... especially when its a repeat offender (yeah, talking to you J Wink )

Y'all have 3-10 posts left here to give ideas for a proper name to whatever this thread has become before I close it cause no one can come up with a name.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 09, 2016 - 04:14 Reply with quote Back to top

How to Retain New FUMBBL Coaches?
New Coaches Slipping Away?

Something like that. It's a worthy discussion.

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What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
kummo



Joined: Mar 29, 2016

Post   Posted: Sep 09, 2016 - 06:26 Reply with quote Back to top

"How to keep new coaches in before they leave"?

I must have been exception. Like.. i played my 1st ever BB match in fumbbl. I never joined 145 even when it was marketed towards me (once by experienced coach, once by a rookie who himself was playing there).

During this half year i've seen a twist in learning. Back then i barely got any wins and experienced coaches just walked over me. Now i somewhat stand a change against experienced coaches (usually still losing, but now it's 0-1 or 1-2 rather than 0-3+) and when rookie comes by i have a chance walk over him.

But during mismatched rookie match i tend to do something. I might be bit greedy since i do want that SPP.. but i offer my help during the game. I offer 145, i give them some helpful links, if they can't even cage or prioritize their moves i post links to some tutorial videos, most often recently i have offered to pm a commentary about whole game about what he did right and what he did wrong.. etc.

Those rookies, even when they get their ass kicked (i tend to make those spp's via TD's, not bashing team to parts.. but that's mostly because the races i play with aren't that bashy), they thank me. Many times they add me in their friend list and might pm afterwards to ask about another game (where i usually have to tell about the 10-game rule in ranked.. that we both have to play 10 games before we even see each other in gamefinder).

I'm gonna keep doing this as i think it's the warmest possible welcome a new coach can have. I'm almost shocked when they say "you are the first one" to do something like this when they have played sometimes even 20 games.. got to wonder about who were they playing against to...

Few days back i looked some coaches that were new when i played against them and many of them have been gone for weeks. Some stayed. (Some might return?).

This game isn't for everyone. This isn't just some casual game you can hop in and hop off. One has to stick with it, learn it (usually the hard way) and appreciate it's different parts (rng, "rpg", mixmaxing [at least to the point you don't bloat your team or forget to skill best positionals that usually don't make TD's], tactics, race behaviors.. etc).

I started this almost the hardest way possible. But i chose to do it that way. I wanted to play against more experienced coaches because they exploited my weaknesses and mistakes. Only a few coaches helped or offered help.. and that was ok for me. But i totally see why someone might leave. It's not community's fault. The game just wasn't for them.

edited some typos and tweaked some sentences to make more sense


Last edited by kummo on Sep 09, 2016 - 09:03; edited 1 time in total
Lorebass



Joined: Jun 25, 2010

Post   Posted: Sep 09, 2016 - 07:04
FUMBBL Staff
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kummo wrote:
...I'm gonna keep doing this as i think it's the warmest possible welcome a new coach can have. I'm almost shocked when they say "you are the first one" to do something like this when they have played sometimes even 20 games.. got to wonder about who were they playing against to...


Kummo wins with a fantastic paragraph (i actually read them all; holy crap), consider thread saved and renamed!
Jamerson



Joined: Jul 22, 2009

Post   Posted: Sep 09, 2016 - 08:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Glad this issue has been embraced (and the tired renamed Very Happy

I'm on my phone on a train currently so will keep it short.

Good to see many individuals are already doing what the can to help newbies. Building upon that good work is probably the way to go.

I think Koadah hit upon the issue that many of there coaches disappear before the even reach the 145 club. This I think, is an important point.

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ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Sep 09, 2016 - 09:05 Reply with quote Back to top

For the record, my first slew of games here were with goblins in the box.

It didn't discourage me at all and while I kinda regret not really bothering with the games since I was just getting the lay of the land (legend with goblins is probably never happening now Wink ), it certainly didn't dissuade me from FUMBBL at all. I spent a lot of time (and still do) spectating games and from that, I might not have gained much tactical nous, but I did get a good sense of the community here. I also then made a minor effort to be slightly involved in said community by polluting irc with my thoughts, something I'm pretty sure Lorebass regrets to this day Wink

My own brief foray into ranked was far less enjoyable than box, and to this day I'm pretty put off using gamefinder in general as a result of it.

Anyway, rambling a bit again, but what I'm trying to say is a few things here:

(a) 145, and other ways in which we welcome new coaches, all suffer from a few things. The first is that there's no centralised, streamlined system - we've got several divisions and even the most experienced of coaches disagree on where is "best" to play. Especially so for a newcomer. Box may contain a "high standard, no mercy" style of play in some people's eyes, but ranked has exactly the same capability with the additional hazard that your opponent may have selected you simply because he "knows" he will win. In that sense, either division is just as perilous. This is not to start box vs ranked at all, but to recognise that yes, it might be that for the absolute beginner, neither division is suitable. But...

(b) This de-centralisation can in fact be a good thing. Or it can be made to be a good thing - I am not still here because I decided that giving everyone a free win in box for the next 20 years was my fait accompli. I'm still here because I reached out a bit into the community and found that there's actually many, many aspects of FUMBBL which are extremely tolerable to newcomers and welcoming, but they're just not blatantly obvious. Hell, if you're a loud enough crazy someone might even think you're a suitable candidate to help out in a metagroup Very Happy

But you don't get a lot of that community in game. And you don't get a lot of it on the forums. You get it spectating, and now in boxchat as well a bit.

Basically, I wish to state there is a great community here, but you also have to meet it half-way. And the lack of centrality forces you to do that if you want to be part of it.


I think some banners (like the ones that run for the minors etc) that ran for about one-two months on the home page of a coach who has newly registered linking them to the 145 club would be a great thing (if this wasn't too hard to implement).



The statements about the difficulty of blood bowl are also something to consider - at first glance, blood bowl is a ridiculously simple game. There are ways to play it that will keep it quite simple too, but for the most part, the more one plays, the more one realises which parts of his game he must adapt and mould and consequently how complex previously simple methodologies and plans become.
We all run into little developmental barriers from time to time, either from switching from a favoured race, or simply reaching a plateau in performance that needs some time to be negotiated. The CR chart on FUMBBL, if one is not abusing match selection, is actually a great way to view this, and a new coach, learning, will have a great many peaks and troughs on his CR chart as he learns.

But we should remember that while for some of us, each more complex understanding might mean an increased level of play and better in-game performance, for others it is simply an increase in frustration and the beginning of the end. And there's no telling whether that will occur or how soon.

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almic85



Joined: May 25, 2009

Post   Posted: Sep 09, 2016 - 09:37 Reply with quote Back to top

I didn't even realize that the academy division had been shutdown. Shows how long it has been since I use that team to help a new coach.

When I was playing ranked more regularly I usually tried to keep one new rookie team ready to play for anyone that was just starting out and this was alongside my other teams that I tried to keep at different TR/TS groups so I could always get a game.

Having a low TV ranked or box team always on hand is a great (and easy) way to always be ready to help out new coaches to both BB and FUMBBL.

Just to add a bit to this discussion on keeping new players interested there seems to be a lot of people that think that if you are not playing multiple games a week then there is an issue.

In the seven years on FUMBBL I have "only" played 290 games, which works out at about 42 games a year, with the majority of those games in the SWL group in league.

I am probably about as casual a FUMBBL player as you will get, but the thing that always gets me coming back to this site is playing in the SWL league. The other thing that kept me ticking over in ranked was usually the short Royal Rookie Rumbble KO tourneys that used to run all the time.

In my opinion if you really want to get new/casual gamers invested in FUMBBL you need to get them playing in some short form KO tournaments that can be played in one sitting (2 games max) and/or get them hooked into a league.

I hate to say it but developing a team for the sake of doing it (which is what it looks like ranked and box do from the outside) falls into the same gaming circle as playing Candy Crush just to get a higher level.

The real fun of Bloodbowl may really be developing a great team, but you need to have an extreme love for the game before you are going to play 100 games with the same team for no other purpose than to get a great team.

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Nextflux



Joined: Jan 22, 2008

Post   Posted: Sep 09, 2016 - 10:32 Reply with quote Back to top

A new guy is looking for the casual game or play style, not too much serious. wich is the right approach to blood bowl. They are however in for a few shocks they might not survive.
a) failure to understand basic play might cause them to leave, more training needed
b) opponents might give them a bad experience, causing them not to see the light in the end of the tunnel
c) confusing site? are they able to find the right place for them to train?
(im not sure if this is the case though)
d) enough casual games, will they get a game without being trashed all the time?

To lessen the burden at the site, maybe we need to create an easy acessable guide to them, what about a welcoming message from the site to any newly registered coaches? And yes, you can find information by asking for it, but why not make it even more easier for them.

a PM to tell them they can go to academy, or 145 club, and explain to them all about ranked, leagues and blackbox divisions, aswell as other stuff like secret league, stunty leagues, NAF etc etc.
also information on how to set up a game, other site rules. links to where they can be found, and also a handful of coaches they can contact for questions, and a handful of mentors who is willing to teach them some tricks of the trade.
Throweck



Joined: Feb 23, 2013

Post   Posted: Sep 09, 2016 - 10:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Ok, I'll step in here and join in! Very Happy

I am very much on the same page as AD.

I have tried to expand 145 club to reach beyond just getting games but to further understanding of how the site works.

This is a BIG site with lots going on and it's easy to get lost in the early days with what's on offer. You can see my most recent blog and what I am trying to accomplish.

I pm'ed Big C with some proposed ideas about making the 145 club a little more prominent, whether it be a banner, small link on a coaches page or when they first join. Not sure what would be best. If you see this Big C, let me know! Very Happy

We did attempt linking the faculty of instructors with 145 loosely a while ago but unfortunately it didn't really get off the ground for what ever reason. I think there needs to be some joined up thinking here.

I think the revamp that Rents has had a massive hand is a great start and a look I was aiming for.

We are also (we as in a few of us have formed a steering group to discuss ideas) looking at very simple guides for various things regarding tactics and race specific stuff. This is in very early stages.

I really would love to see this work as I feel strongly that new coaches need to be welcomed and guided through the site. That's why I started the 145 discussion thread. Any coach can ask any question regardless of how 'noob' it sounds.

I think there are lots of reasons coaches don't stay and not all of them specific to fumbbl. It could be time. How many new coaches realise the time commitment needs? It could be lack of experience. I was pretty intimidated when I first joined. So many outside factors...family, job, time management, access to internet, etc.

I do think until there is some kind of path for new coaches to find their feet, we will see other coaches leave. However, if we keep directing and make a concerted effort I believe that is a good start.
kummo



Joined: Mar 29, 2016

Post   Posted: Sep 09, 2016 - 10:52 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
In that sense, either division is just as perilous. This is not to start box vs ranked at all, but to recognise that yes, it might be that for the absolute beginner, neither division is suitable.

But you don't get a lot of that community in game. And you don't get a lot of it on the forums. You get it spectating, and now in boxchat as well a bit.

Basically, I wish to state there is a great community here, but you also have to meet it half-way. And the lack of centrality forces you to do that if you want to be part of it.


Yeah, forgot to say: the most fun i have and had with fumbbl so far (and i think i will continue on having) is in leagues.

My 1st league was Hubba2. 24 coaches. Each new coach have their race randomly given to them. There can be only 1 race each existing in the league. There are relegations and promotions so new coached don't have to play against developed killers (you can keep your team and play as long as you want). Even when i was a new player and even when i played my 1st season with a team i didn't like (one of the least favorites.. for agile and mobile coach like me Dwarfs worked really clumsily.. now i play Delfs which is my fav race). The community was mostly cheerful but not that many spectated each others game and 1st div had a lot of games not played.. but the "rookie division" rocked and every game got played. It was fun to chat with everyone (except one.. that was too bitter and moany for my taste). It wasn't perfect start with leagues but good enough for my 1st experience.

My 2nd league was all-human (races) 32 coaches huge league with drafting and kinda "sports manager simulation" feeling. The league is DLE. What a COMMUNITY! I mean, almost every game played get's from 5 to 7 specs (most of them are fellow coaches). Chatting your opponent is fun, yeah, but more fun it is to watch someone else play and talk with other coaches!! Also i have severeal pm-conversations with other coaches on that league.. either about cheerful feedback, trade offers (we can trade draftpicks, every seasons has a draft).. all sorts of stuff. Its awesome. Never i have ever had this much joy in any other game.. and i have played a lot of online manager games and some other mmo-games too.. This is the 1st one where i sense fellow players.. where almost like friendships (not really but almost) are being born.. a lil bit of competition (kinda like rivals-setting.. either with fluff or just the mindset).. where i see some "sensei"-kinda guru-figures that know what they are doing.. and some newer coaches trying to do what they can. Really really wide and deep.

If you want to really hook new coach to fumbbl, hook them in (fitting) league. It doesn't have to be fluffy (unless new coach likes fluff), it doesn't have to be competitive (unless competition is what new coach wants), it doesn't have to be fun (if blood-tasty competition is what he wants) or it could be only-for-fun (if stunty league is what new one is after).. This is maybe the hardest thing to do.. and we, the experienced coaches really can't sit these new ones in leagues.. they kinda have to find them theirselves (we can tell that there are different leagues and suggest some.. but they have to be the ones that commit to it).

Once they are hooked, then they are in Wink
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Sep 09, 2016 - 11:09 Reply with quote Back to top

Gamefinder needs an upgrade. It needs to display which league teams belong to.

Then we would be able to see who is waiting in 145 Club or an Academy league.

For the [L]eague at least we should be able to see all the teams waiting. Not just those in range of the teams you threw in.

And yes. Gamefinder Chat.

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