Endzone
Joined: Apr 01, 2008
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 Posted:
Jan 28, 2016 - 19:58 |
 
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I think the 'play to win rule' is primarily to avoid match fixing. Without it you could imagine a scenario where coaches allow each other to score quickly to buff their SPP gain whilst not hitting each other - perhaps alternating who wins their matches or something. I don't think the rule is about limiting play styles and it is understood that sometimes coaches will be trying to achieve meta goals, be they casualties, touchdowns, completions or whatever. |
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anisdrin
Joined: Apr 10, 2009
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Jan 28, 2016 - 20:14 |
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I understand your point Pentalarc and I agree.
But is there something strange with fumbbl etiquette.
Say something about bad luck and you will be tagged as whiner,etc, etc...
Play to only to destroy and it's fine, you must respect other choices, etc, etc...
Just the opposite than in real life TT game. |
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krytie
Joined: Aug 16, 2007
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Jan 28, 2016 - 20:17 |
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I'm not a fan of bash but I feel compelled to point out the following ...
| Pentalarc wrote: |
Hypothetical example (which will not lead to anything in question here) Team A scores a TD. Team B concentrates only on destroying Team A. |
Logically this continues as follows:
Team B receives but concentrates only on destroying Team A. Team A scores, leads 2-0 by T6 but is now down 4 men.
Team B receives again but concentrates only on destroying Team A. Team A doesn't have time to score a third before halftime. Team A leads 2-0 but is now down 6 men.
Second half, it's 5 v 10. Team B receives and concentrates on destroying Team A whilst their 2:1 numbers advantage allows them to score. Team A is tabled or can barely field a team. Team B scores again. Team A cannot set up for the kickoff, Team B gets a forfeit score, gets another forfeit score, wins 4-2.
| Pentalarc wrote: | | Team A has played to win, Team B has ... |
... Won. |
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DustBunny
Joined: Oct 14, 2008
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Jan 28, 2016 - 20:36 |
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| anisdrin wrote: | I understand your point Pentalarc and I agree.
But is there something strange with fumbbl etiquette.
Say something about bad luck and you will be tagged as whiner,etc, etc...
Play to only to destroy and it's fine, you must respect other choices, etc, etc...
Just the opposite than in real life TT game. |
If you whine, get tagged as a whiner. Plenty of people mention their luck and as long as it isn't whingey or condescending they don't get stick for it. When people whine they get a bad rap because it is effectively them telling their opponent they aren't any good and that it's just the dice doing the work.
Sometimes that's true, but, y'know sportsmanship.
@Pentalarc:
Is this in reference to a game you played, or to a game others played?
Looking at your recent games the last time I can find one that's not a loss is your CDorfs vs some Highelves where you won 2-0.
If in reference to your own games then, yes, the opponent played to win when they inflicted the cas as clearly they won.
With regards to the High Elf game you could easily have won that 3-0 (maybe even 4-0) given what your opponent was doing.
Bash - a few fouls wouldn't of hurt. A better elf would have obliterated the dorfs with that many men left.
Handling - Attempting the 6+ pass towards the end was unnecessary and resulted in the ball getting away from you.
If you want any more feedback regarding that game feel free to PM me. |
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ThierryM
Joined: Mar 27, 2015
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Jan 28, 2016 - 20:36 |
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I like to bash and foul as much as possible but trying to acheive the feat of getting a forfeit score is REALLY rare and hard (hopefully). I think that I managed it only once.
Even in Stunty it's hard...
And it's mainly due to bad KOs' recovery rolls when it happens, not just raw bloody casualties.
If you play cautiously you shouldn't suffer that many casualties per round/drive. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jan 28, 2016 - 21:01 |
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@Wreckage: It's impossible to have a common standard as no 2 matches are ever the same. Therefore like so many rules here, it has to be done on a case by case scenario. If it's case by case, it's then impossible to state what is and isn't (to a degree). Therefore you have a group of people chosen for using common sense and experience to decide.
*Remember Staff do not get involved in League games with this rule. There are arranged games in League for a reason, therefore this rule has no bearing in League. For Stunty.....I think that's Whatball's court; however he is proud of the integrity of the division, so I'd play to win there.
*The main thing to bear in mind with this rule (an example given by pete_w) is that do the tactics being used fit with an overall strategy of winning or drawing if a win is not possible?
And that's the tricky part. Bashing your opponent off the pitch is a legitimate strategy for winning games. Unless blatantly giving up a win to bash, I think you'd have a hard time proving the player wasn't trying to win. However, if a coach continually did so, I guess you could view a series of 'dubious' replays and submit them as evidence (the staff won't thank you for that mind).
So, unless you're sure (and I would check a fair few replays to make sure you're sure) I don't think you'll have much luck of proving it's not a 'playing to win' strategy. |
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ramchop
Joined: Oct 12, 2013
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What happens to the "play to win" rule when you're 4-0 down with two turns left to play?  |
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DustBunny
Joined: Oct 14, 2008
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Jan 28, 2016 - 21:20 |
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amazingprizzini
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
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Jan 28, 2016 - 21:25 |
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Seems like your only hope then, is to smash the other team to nothing! (As difficult as that can be. I've never done it, or had it done to me, although my opponents have come closer than I'd prefer to admit.) |
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DeathJester74
Joined: Oct 11, 2015
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Jan 29, 2016 - 17:54 |
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| Pentalarc wrote: | ONe of the rules of this site is that we need to "play to win." This is a good rule, and I agree with it, and I think that it should be enforced.
HOwever, how come ignoring the score, and trying only to destroy the other player's team, especially the other player's best players, specifically piling on and fouling legends while ignoring the ball and a chance to score is not considered a violation of this rule? The only point being to do as much damage as possible to the other player's team, and if possbile, destroy their best players. THis is not in a league setting, where one could conceivably say that they may not want to face those players again.
I know that odds are 51% of the responses are going to be "lol, kill all menz". But this is an issue that needs to be addressed.
aA rule on this site and community is being blatantly, gleefully ignored, and it is allowed as long as the rule is being broken in a "macho" manner. |
Your post is rude and offensive!!! Who are you to say what is playing to win??? You are not my god, I will not be told by YOU what to do!!!
My playing style is exactly what you are describing. I play to kill and destroy the other team. I care nothing for scoring and can go many games without even touching the ball. Sometimes I even drive the wrong direction down the field if it can line up more 2D blocks!!
You are my favorite kind of coach to play because I know when I destroy your players you will cry and be sad on a very real level. I will be hunting you...you will become my next victim on the field of battle!!!
Killstack forever!!! Foul on all turnz!!! CPOMB 4 Life!!! All pixelz must die!!! |
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kilinrax
Joined: Jan 12, 2015
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Feb 03, 2016 - 14:32 |
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| DeathJester74 wrote: | Your post is rude and offensive!!! Who are you to say what is playing to win??? You are not my god, I will not be told by YOU what to do!!!
My playing style is exactly what you are describing. I play to kill and destroy the other team. I care nothing for scoring and can go many games without even touching the ball. Sometimes I even drive the wrong direction down the field if it can line up more 2D blocks!!
You are my favorite kind of coach to play because I know when I destroy your players you will cry and be sad on a very real level. I will be hunting you...you will become my next victim on the field of battle!!!
Killstack forever!!! Foul on all turnz!!! CPOMB 4 Life!!! All pixelz must die!!! |
If you played like this in our local perpetual TT league, you'd rapidly stop getting any matches. Because the point of playing TT is to play Blood Bowl, have fun, and (normally) drink beer. Winning the way you describe isn't fun - deliberately - for your opponent. And whilst smack talk can be fun, yours is pretty one sided.
I don't think you'd play the way you play, and definitely wouldn't talk the way you do in the forums if you weren't protected by a level of internet anonymity. Which makes me wonder to what degree your online persona is an act and to what degree you have any of the 'dark tetrad' of personality traits associated with MMO griefers (sadism, psychopathy, narcissism, machiavellianism).
When I was younger, I was taught to humble myself when entering a new community. There are coaches here with a decade, or thousands of games, over you or I.
It's advice you'd do well to heed, too. |
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Endzone
Joined: Apr 01, 2008
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Feb 03, 2016 - 15:27 |
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Sometimes when coaches are playing a bash strategy to win they get carried away and miss a win, but that maybe a legitimate mistake rather than deliberately throwing the match to try to kill a pixel.
When playing a bash strategy to win I often find that early in the drive I am more concerned with causing damage and towards then end of the drive I am more concerned with scoring. Getting that balance right requires judgement and potentially a change of gear / mind set. It's quite easy to get that wrong. |
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santamaria
Joined: Aug 07, 2014
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Feb 03, 2016 - 15:58 |
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Well,it goes down to frustration imho. I have done it myself, like i fouled last turn and did at least once all the things i hate to see from another coach.
i saw lots of player saying "i play for blood, not for ball", but all the time it happens in the second half after they have no more chance to get a victory/draw..or after they secured the ball stalling for a classic 2-1 victory while cleaning the pitch.
That to me is just "i play to win, and if i can i play to rape you too"...that is not bad or wrong at all... the only ridicolous thing is justifying the "frustration man hunting" behind "i don't play for ball"
Recently i was having a good game, some good rolls and was going to secure a good 3-1.
When he could do nothing anymore, The opposing coach started to gangfoul and pomb everything he could, shielding himself behind "i play just to wreck other teams"..i was not upset, i did win 3-1 and create another team of the same race...since i don't want to rebuild that one (less than 30 games...not a big deal) but the funny thing to me was that i was sure he DOES play to win, like everyone...but in that specific moment he was just losing badly (he has a very very good ballcarrier..not that useful to kill all menz)
Lately, i saw the profile of a true honest coach that played for blood...hope this does not count as "naming and shaming" since the player has been inactive for the last 12 years
https://fumbbl.com/~BLOODKILLERMACHO |
Last edited by santamaria on %b %03, %2016 - %16:%Feb; edited 2 times in total |
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Throweck
Joined: Feb 23, 2013
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| Posted:
Feb 03, 2016 - 15:59 |
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| DeathJester74 wrote: | | Pentalarc wrote: | ONe of the rules of this site is that we need to "play to win." This is a good rule, and I agree with it, and I think that it should be enforced.
HOwever, how come ignoring the score, and trying only to destroy the other player's team, especially the other player's best players, specifically piling on and fouling legends while ignoring the ball and a chance to score is not considered a violation of this rule? The only point being to do as much damage as possible to the other player's team, and if possbile, destroy their best players. THis is not in a league setting, where one could conceivably say that they may not want to face those players again.
I know that odds are 51% of the responses are going to be "lol, kill all menz". But this is an issue that needs to be addressed.
aA rule on this site and community is being blatantly, gleefully ignored, and it is allowed as long as the rule is being broken in a "macho" manner. |
Your post is rude and offensive!!! Who are you to say what is playing to win??? You are not my god, I will not be told by YOU what to do!!!
My playing style is exactly what you are describing. I play to kill and destroy the other team. I care nothing for scoring and can go many games without even touching the ball. Sometimes I even drive the wrong direction down the field if it can line up more 2D blocks!!
You are my favorite kind of coach to play because I know when I destroy your players you will cry and be sad on a very real level. I will be hunting you...you will become my next victim on the field of battle!!!
Killstack forever!!! Foul on all turnz!!! CPOMB 4 Life!!! All pixelz must die!!! |
Why portray such a persona? Do you think people on here would be impressed? /sigh
Let's leave it at a very poor attempt at trolling resulting in you coming over as a poor mans Calcium. (No offense big C).
My guessing is you want people to comment on your perceived attitude and think 'Woah this guy has big Kohonas!' unfortunately it comes across as quite the opposite.
Self admitting that you are breaking site rules is a smart move, keep it up. /clap |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Feb 03, 2016 - 16:13 |
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See, the thing that's going to annoy even more people is when you point out that killing all menz is a legit tactic, but saving all menz (and some of you know what I'm referring to) is not.
It is a completely arbitrary and pointless double standard.
But it's our double standard, so I guess... |
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