Mentok
Joined: Nov 19, 2003
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 Posted:
May 24, 2004 - 19:28 |
 
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I consider myself a comparably good player, but still I am pretty helpless against elves (which is why I avoid em or try and kill em).
So, how do I defend best against elves assumed he ll have either
A) 3-4 men separated thru my lines or
B) one 3-4 men bunch in the wide zone and let's say 1 man on the other side.
Pictures are highly appreciated, since "block the players so they cant come thru" isn't really precise and I know that myself  |
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deathgerbil
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 24, 2004 - 20:36 |
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you really can't unless you have diving tackle. agi 4 is enough to allow him to dodge past anything you have easily. your best bet is to force em to score once, and cage/score on turn 8. and go hunting  |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 24, 2004 - 20:39 |
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Simple, do what the hunter/cherry pickers do and load up on skills to defend vs elves. Take plenty of tackle and diving tackle. Also make sure you have a Sure Handed ball carrier to protect vs those strip ball war dancers.
This enables you to take them down and reduce their numbers. Basically with 11 vs 11 its almost impossible to stop them without these skills. Of course this will make you vulnerable vs bashy teams, but isnt that what cherry picking is all about?
Good luck |
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AvatarDM
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 24, 2004 - 20:41 |
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Best thing you can do with a bashy team against elves is: Try to win 2-1... let them score in 2 turns, then you have 6 turns to score and stall... and use 8 turns to score when you're recieving. |
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Mentok
Joined: Nov 19, 2003
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May 24, 2004 - 20:59 |
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k, seems everyone is helpless eh. so it's not only me...
but i guess it really is the only tactics against elves. cage and stall. |
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Funso
Joined: Apr 05, 2004
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May 24, 2004 - 21:00 |
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Yup, it is a pity, but the best way to beat elves is to kill em. Sad, because it really splits the game up into bashy and non-bashy teams, and there is very little middle-ground, really. |
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Elkerlyc
Joined: Mar 27, 2004
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May 24, 2004 - 21:12 |
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You do not have to kill or hurt elves to beat them.
(but it helps, that is true)
I myself prefer foul appearance, tentacles and prehensile tail.
(I love my Minotaur with tentacles; he is so cudlly)
Even if this rather non-bashy approach still is hampered by the fact that many elven players simply not play you BECAUSE you are chaos. No matter that you play ball and do not have a dirty player.
Ah well; the stuff works vs non elven teams too.  |
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Topper
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
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May 24, 2004 - 21:23 |
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Don´t let him score in 2 turns.
No start with the ball yourself, spend all afternoon scoring the first TD - and reducing their numbers.
That way if u are lucky they might not even score and u can win 2-3 to 0.
But the best way to beat a elf team is to let him roll easy dices such as 2+
I know I allways fail, while my dodges through 3 TZ and a pickup in rain - long bomb - catch - 2 gfi´s probably succeds
Ít´s the "CURSE OF THE ELVES" |
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Sinner
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 24, 2004 - 21:44 |
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my darkies played 15 games against chaos (out of 101 games)... I think I played them pretty often.
Out of those I won 9, tied 4 and lost 2.
Now, I played most of those while I was high rating (low FF though) and I played RSC/ Claw/ MB heavy teams, so I really should start you thinking right now, because: even if you have RSC/ Claw/ MB (and PO in the good old times) it only turns the odds to your favour to reduce the opposing players, but still you need 7+ with claw to hurt and 8+ with RSC to kill. Played deathgerbil once with a different dark elves team and outscored AND outcassed him (Deathgerbils Revenge 0-4 Dark).
Conclusion? there is none. Elves win whenever they are lucky and you can do not-a-thing. If they fail occasionally (espacially crucial dodges) and you make your casualties early, you are in for a win.
5 cents from an elven coach |
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Sinner
Darkie's Dreams - successfully cherrypicking any race, any coach, any rating, any number of DP since 20/09/2003 ... and still winning! |
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AvatarDM
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 24, 2004 - 22:41 |
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Well, claw/RSC/PO chaos isn't the worst thing for elves: they lack tackle and FA... to beat an elf team you need FA and tackle, not bashy skills... |
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Arlecchino
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
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May 25, 2004 - 00:09 |
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Tacle, Mighty Blow, Piling On is very nice vs dodging elves.
Also Shadowing is very nice if u have at least mov 6 players. |
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deathgerbil
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 25, 2004 - 00:39 |
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Personally i think foul apperance is kinda useless against elves. to get foul apperance, you need doubles, and that simply reduces their odds of catching the ball to a 3+. in order to stop elves from being able to pass you'd need your opponent to be a complete idiot and pass the ball into 3+ foul apperances, something that just simply won't happen. tackle is nice for cancling dodge, but don't even bother about tripping them up, - with their insane agility and movement, it simply isn't going to happen.
elker, - those things you're suggesting all require doubles, which simply aren't as effective as taking claw or rsc. if you play a chaos team and try to play elf ball, do yourself a favor and retire the team. it's generally impossible to stop elves from scoring because you can't pin them down, but you can force them to score in 2 or 3 turns. during those turns, kill all the elves you can, and when they kick off to you, try to kill a few more elves. that way you can cage and stall to get a win in the 2nd half. boring, - yes. effective, - highly.= |
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AvatarDM
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 25, 2004 - 00:53 |
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Yeah, and a 3+ fails every 9th try (when using a reroll), thats better than every 36th try |
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Michael_Warblade
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 25, 2004 - 00:56 |
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Unfortunately I agree with Deathgerbil on this one to win vs elves you either have to be extremely lucky (ie they fail every important roll) or cage or Beat them up (note that caging and beating up are not mutually exclusive nor is it usually nessesary to do both) if the elfs are lucky you have lost if you fail pickup or handoff roll as they will steal the ball from you (especially if their are any AG5 or 6 elfs on the board)
This is of course why elfs are called agility teams and chaos, orcs, khemri, etc are bashy teams (ie style of play that suits the team best)
I will admit some FA players are annoying but a AG4 accurate Strong arm thrower isnt going to care about 1 FA player (especially if he is within 7 squares of the catcher as AG4 accurate quickpass is 1+ and FA is only a -1 to the roll)
Tentacles is very useful but only on ST5 players as with a small amount of luck a ST3 player can escape from an ST4 player |
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Elkerlyc
Joined: Mar 27, 2004
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May 25, 2004 - 01:05 |
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Well; I firmly believe that in the end these things add up. Sure; one foul appearance is not gonna be much of a help but it is if you have tentacles on an ST4+ player too. Plus another with prehensile tail and tackle. Another foul appearance and pass block.
I'd even add a claw too. Why not? It is a weapon in the arsenal. I just feel it is limiting to only take claws/rsf whenever you roll a double.
Not to say boring... |
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