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Elijah



Joined: Feb 16, 2015

Post   Posted: Mar 31, 2016 - 01:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Hi all,

I'd like to start practicing with a team that has overall no particular strengths nor particular weaknesses.

My choice ran down to Humans or Dark elves.

Please, almost god-like experienced people, let me have a sip of some of your sweetest knowledge!
mdd31



Joined: Oct 23, 2014

Post   Posted: Mar 31, 2016 - 02:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Humans would be the more neutral of the two. Dark elves would be much "much easier" to start off with in my opinion. While they have a little bashing edge to them, they are AG based in the end and not without strengths or weaknesses.
Lorean



Joined: Jan 17, 2017

Post   Posted: Jan 18, 2017 - 12:56 Reply with quote Back to top

I found that starting out, Teams without particular strength and weaknesses were much hard to play than teams that were specialized.

Although human has become my favorite throughout the years and it's precisely because you have to play them very differently depending on who you face. When you face dwarves, you outrun them. When you play elves, you bash because your players are more expendable. You generally try to be whatever your opponent is weak to. This means you have to learn a variety of strategies and adapt.

If that's what you're looking for, great!

Otherwise you might have more luck starting with something like orc, which is pretty allround, but can play a bash/running style against everybody.

The variety is what's great though, so you can start with any team you like. In general I'd advise starting with teams that have armor value of 8 and try to have a starting team that is at least 9 players of armor value 8. It's not that it's essential or important for success to have high armor value, but when learning it is definitely more forgiving to have some armor (though I'd never advise taking +armor for skillups.)

The disadvantage of orc or human is that they can get a bit stuck. Elves have agility 4, which means they can dodge out of most situations by rolling a 2. This means that they can make some amazing surprise mobility plays, as well as great for making passes and using that to score quickly.

Scoring quickly isn't always desirable, because it means the opponent gets the ball and a chance to score sooner.

Another option for starting out are the undead/necro teams. They have plenty of regeneration, which means that team managament is somewhat more forgiving on the money. For elf teams, expensive players that enemies like to bash, money can be a bit of a problem. I wouldn't advise khemri, though, that's just masochistic, unless you don't mind spending half the game trying to pick up the ball.

Just a few thoughts for choosing your starter team. Dark elf are alright to begin with. I especially like a startup line with only av 8 players. Don't get fan factor and don't forget to get some rerolls, at least 2.
Chainsaw



Joined: Aug 31, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 18, 2017 - 13:10 Reply with quote Back to top

At low TV dark elves have an edge due to the blanket ag4. You can more easily avoid blocks, and can have several blodge after just a few games.

Longer term I feel dark elves are more reliant on stat increases than humans. You can build a very bashy human team since the blitzers have access to strength skills, plus the ogre too, and cheap linemen for foulers. Dark elves lacking AG5/leap players or +ST blitzers or short on guard or all 3 combined, they can get smashed at higher TV.

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CaptainKrunch



Joined: Nov 06, 2010

Post   Posted: Jan 18, 2017 - 17:33 Reply with quote Back to top

I would say dark elves only because humans are about to get a slight roster change, and it might be best to wait on making humans until then. That said, it really just depends on what kind of style you want to play. Here's what you'd get at the start, following the general recommendations:

Dark Elves: 2 Re-Rolls, 4 Blitzers(GA) and either 7 linemen(GA) +10k towards apothecary or 6 linemen and a runner(GAP).

Humans: 3 Re-Rolls, 4 Blitzers(GS), an Ogre(S), a Thrower(GP), and 5 Linemen(G).

Based on the above, dark elves probably start a little bit better. With the elves, your ball handler will start with block, and while you can make a human blitzer the ball carrier (and that's probably recommended anyways, due to increased movement and just to level them up in general), it means potentially wasting team re-rolls instead of using the Thrower's built in sure hands re-roll. The AG4 on everybody is also really useful, especially on defense as you can try to dodge away and stay one square in front of the cage at all times. You just have to take care with your team re-rolls since you only have 2.

With Humans, the Ogre can be great if you know how to use big guys effectively, but can also flat out lose you games if you don't know what you're doing because of Loner. The thrower also makes your wood elf/ slann/ maybe skaven matchup better than Dark Elves bc of sure hands. The thrower is also just leaps and bounds better than the dark elf runner, making getting a leader re-roll with humans a little less painful.

Offense is essentially the same for both, get ball in cage/screen and move forward making blocks and blitzes with guys with block.

At mid-TV humans are probably slightly better, because DE blitzers rely on doubles and then have to choose between guard or MB, while Humans get those immediately. Plus, if you manage to get block on the Ogre, you're golden. Human players are also cheaper, which makes a deeper bench less of a TV strain, which opens up more dirty player/fouling tactics, and makes a bad start easier to recover from.

At high TV, I think it swings back to DE, because witch elves are great ball hawks with wrestle and strip ball, plus Ag5 is just flat better than AG 4 once stats start coming into play.

That said, I think the new rules are going to be bad for all elves in general, because with Piling On becoming more rare, if not disappearing altogether, tackle is probably going to see a lot more play which is terribad for teams that rely on it, and it's one of maybe two good agility skills, and one of the draws of playing elves. As the rules stand, though, Dark Elves are probably overall better.

Also, look at Amazons. They also get 4 blitzers from the start, the Blitzers get strength access, everyone already has half of the useful A skills, players are dirt cheap, and the AV7 is majorly offset by the fact that they're just so damn difficult to knock over, and that AV7=AV8 when facing anyone with claw, at least as the rules currently stand. Their biggest downside is the general lack of great stats, and their lack of big guy, so they tend to get worse at higher TV unless you really luck out on skill rolls.

That's All I got!

Best.
CaptainKrunch

Tl;dr: Dark Elves, or Amazons.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 18, 2017 - 19:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Humans are a blast!

4 Blitzers
1 Thrower
1 Catcher
6 Linemen (12 players)
3 RR
Apothecary

Buy nothing except replacements until you creep over 1400. Then buy a 7th Lineman. Don't bother with an Ogre.

Blitzers get MB first, second skill alternate Tackle and Guard. Dodge or ignore on doubles. Take all stats (MA, AG, ST).
Block on linos, maybe a DP, Guard on doubles. Take only ST.
Block on Throwers or Catchers, Guard on doubles for Catchers, Dodge on doubles for Throwers. Take all stats (MA, AG, ST).

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What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 19, 2017 - 18:12 Reply with quote Back to top

CaptainKrunch wrote:
I would say dark elves only because humans are about to get a slight roster change, and it might be best to wait on making humans until then.

The change in the new rules (not yet on FUMBBL) for Humans is merely a 10k price reduction on catchers.

Blitzers are very important for both teams. A Witch Elf is a great surfing threat for Dark Elves. Definitely don't rule out an Ogre for humans.

Amazons are very good at low TV due to block and dodge. But they are lacking move 7 and are low armoured.

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