51 coaches online • Server time: 00:46
Index Search Usergroups Profile
Log in
Recent Forum Topics goto Post SWL Fringe Tourneysgoto Post Crowd funded teams &...goto Post The Jalapeño Popp...
SearchSearch 
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
coombz



Joined: Oct 12, 2010

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 04:56 Reply with quote Back to top

PainState wrote:
I agree with licker. Roster discussions, in the void, of not knowing what the rules changes to the core rules of CRP are, is, well, pointless.


not if your point is solely to troll for attention and try to kick up drama because you're a lonely dude having some kind of a weird mid-life crisis

am I really the only one who sees this? Smile seems pretty obvious from where I'm sitting...

it's also kind of fascinating. straight up trolling is one thing, but this is much more convoluted and interesting, from an armchair psychologist POV :d

_________________
They found 10 grams, seized my whip and took my knife...

That's Trailer Park Life.
mdd31



Joined: Oct 23, 2014

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 05:01 Reply with quote Back to top

licker wrote:

Well these 'changes' do suck, objectively based on the information we have available.

Don't even need to do any testing to know that.

But it's not on anyone other than person suggesting the changes to do the testing anyway.


+1
bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 08:05 Reply with quote Back to top

pac wrote:
Sea Elves are a completely new roster. The only way to test them is to play with them, surely.

New rosters are meant to be exciting, intriguing, strange and cool. Getting bogged down in how they would end up if they were min-maxed to the nth degree is the death of enjoyable design work.


Based on this feedback from you i would not employ you as game designer. I think your personality is not a good fit for the job. I led game designs for a few years, was actually paid for it, and i also selected designers and developers. So i have real life professional experience on the matter. (I spent over 10000 hours with constant feedback, so i can call myself an expert.)

The way you try to do is not professional, and i give 0% chance that this will be better than the current ruleset.

If you want to revolutionarize bbowl for the greater good, then you should care less about the designer's fun, and all about the audience's fun. And you needed to go into depth all the available information.

_________________
Image
"This is turning into the best thing on FUMBBL" - Seventyone
"THIS LEAGUE IS AWESOME!!!!" - Kummo
"Last league i would leave." - SpecialOne
almic85



Joined: May 25, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 11:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Hi Pac, reading through this whole thread I can kind of see where you are trying to go, but as with a lot of other comments I can't make any informed comments on your rosters without having a base set of rules to run from.

In the OP you have mentioned 3rd edition rules. Is there any chance you have a link to this set of rules as I don't have the memory to back past CRP, past LRB4 to try and remember which one was considered 3rd ed.

I think a lot of the people looking at this thread just don't have the same love of and knowledge of what 3rd ed is compared to CRP and are thus looking at your rosters in a CRP environment, which is understandable from their side.

I like the idea of humans, orcs and to some extent dwarfs having a larger number of positionals as the jack of all trade and traditional teams, but they all feel a bit too samey if all teams have all positionals. The only difference I can see between them is a minus MA here and plus AV there other than that they all look to develop the same way.

In my opinion these three teams need to each not have access to one of the positionals and/or have a "themed" positional that pushes them in a development direction.

The elf team looks too quick, too agile and too cheap in comparison tot he other thee rosters because on day 1 you do only need 11 players and elves are famous for winning with under 11 players.

Anyway I would like to see a bit more of your ideas and encourage everyone to leave whatever happened in the other thread there (I don't know what it was) and focus on what is being discussed only in this thread.

_________________
SWL the place to be.

If you're interested join the Fringe
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 12:26 Reply with quote Back to top

WhatBall wrote:
Gotta start with the rules. The rosters are the sexy bit, but they are not the foundation of the game. I'm keen to see some new rule suggestions, then I would look at the rosters after.


+1. Seems pointless discussing rosters outside the context of the ruleset.

_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
PaddyMick



Joined: Jan 03, 2012

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 13:10 Reply with quote Back to top

JellyBelly wrote:
WhatBall wrote:
Gotta start with the rules. The rosters are the sexy bit, but they are not the foundation of the game. I'm keen to see some new rule suggestions, then I would look at the rosters after.


+1. Seems pointless discussing rosters outside the context of the ruleset.


+2
Nielsh



Joined: Sep 11, 2008

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 13:12 Reply with quote Back to top

On the plus side I have never seen as much activity on the forum since Spiros "Wizard in common match vs high CR coach - lammer opton ?" forum thread.
the_Sage



Joined: Jan 13, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 13:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Nielsh wrote:
On the plus side I have never seen as much activity on the forum since Spiros "Wizard in common match vs high CR coach - lammer opton ?" forum thread.


You must have missed the sexist thread that went 24 pages in 4 days before getting locked, then. Wink

_________________
Content: Twitch / Youtube ; Updates: Facebook / Twitter
(because big banners are compensating)
Reisender



Joined: Sep 29, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 13:41 Reply with quote Back to top

pac wrote:
Reisender wrote:
just a question pac. did you refer (partly) to my post with that. or just thought it´s better to ignore it or just didnt find it helpful. or will you get post sth later regarding that specific topic?

I didn't even spot your post, AFAIK, man. I remember you, Reisender. I am pretty sure we are cool. =)


We are, mate Cool
pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 18:47 Reply with quote Back to top

coombz wrote:
not if your point is solely to troll for attention and try to kick up drama because you're a lonely dude having some kind of a weird mid-life crisis

am I really the only one who sees this? Smile seems pretty obvious from where I'm sitting...

it's also kind of fascinating. straight up trolling is one thing, but this is much more convoluted and interesting, from an armchair psychologist POV :d

Yep, more insults. No surprises there from this idiot.

Will any admin man up and ban this guy?

Of course not. One of you thinks he's cool or something, so it's nothing doing.

_________________
Join us in building Blood Bowl Sixth Edition.
In other news, the Hittites are back. Join us in #fumbbl.hi Very Happy
pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 18:48 Reply with quote Back to top

pokrjax wrote:
So you wouldn't stress test a new machine part etc. you designed if you were an engineer?

You "stress test" a roster by running it in a league for a while and seeing what happens.

How else would you do it?

_________________
Join us in building Blood Bowl Sixth Edition.
In other news, the Hittites are back. Join us in #fumbbl.hi Very Happy
pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 18:50 Reply with quote Back to top

PainState wrote:
Well, if we are going to harken back to the past editions to make a new FUMBBL LRB, then why not allow every roster to have a 0-1 lino with a Chainsaw and a 7+ ejection roll?

Yeah, Chainsaw wielders are great. I'd prefer to make them fairly cheap Freebooters though, that you could buy each game if you had the money.

Quote:
I agree with licker. Roster discussions, in the void, of not knowing what the rules changes to the core rules of CRP are, is, well, pointless.

All those things will emerge in time — faster if I am subject to less abuse. Faster still if the mods learn how to do their jobs and keep the forums civil, and bring abusive posters into line.

The mods have threatened me with bans (even a perma-ban!) if I overstep certain boundaries. They have not done anything at all to rein in the thread-crappers (or not that I am aware of).

I have asked for limited mod powers — hardly unreasonable as I have had them in the past on certain sub-forums, and have been invited to join the admin team in the past (I was very busy, so I had to say no). I have wondered aloud why there is no ignore list feature — it's a pretty basic thing these days, but apparently it can't be done on these forums. Either of those would help one hell of a lot.

This is a process. It's happening in public. Stop freaking out. Participate, or do not participate. No one is screaming.

_________________
Join us in building Blood Bowl Sixth Edition.
In other news, the Hittites are back. Join us in #fumbbl.hi Very Happy
pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 18:54 Reply with quote Back to top

mdd31 wrote:
licker wrote:

Well these 'changes' do suck, objectively based on the information we have available.

Don't even need to do any testing to know that.

But it's not on anyone other than person suggesting the changes to do the testing anyway.


+1

If that's what you guys think, then go away and leave those miserable fools who might be interested alone to wallow in our sucky imaginary rules set. KK?

_________________
Join us in building Blood Bowl Sixth Edition.
In other news, the Hittites are back. Join us in #fumbbl.hi Very Happy
pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 18:58 Reply with quote Back to top

bghandras wrote:
Based on this feedback from you i would not employ you as game designer.

Then you'd be a fool, because I am really good at game design. You have no idea.

It's sweet that you have some game design experience — but were any of the games you made any good? If you disliked outspoken people on your team, I really doubt it.

Quote:
The way you try to do is not professional, and i give 0% chance that this will be better than the current ruleset.

Of course I am not being "professional". Guess what? No one is paying me, so I am not being professional. What a shock!

Give me 20K of your favourite currency per year to do this, and you'd see a whole different pac — but I'd do it on my own website where thread-crapping was not tolerated.

Quote:
If you want to revolutionarize bbowl for the greater good, then you should care less about the designer's fun, and all about the audience's fun.

I am the audience and the designer. Posters here (if they really want to bother) are too.

What's the Skaven list going to look like? Will a Grey Seer really take to the pitch?

I don't know — maybe someone should stop bitching and whining, throw in their own 10 cents, design a roster and see what *I* think of it?

Quote:
And you needed to go into depth all the available information.

Meaningless. Not even clear English. I certainly would never have enjoyed working in game design under you.

_________________
Join us in building Blood Bowl Sixth Edition.
In other news, the Hittites are back. Join us in #fumbbl.hi Very Happy
pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 19:05 Reply with quote Back to top

almic85 wrote:
In the OP you have mentioned 3rd edition rules. Is there any chance you have a link to this set of rules as I don't have the memory to back past CRP, past LRB4 to try and remember which one was considered 3rd ed.

The third edition era is what we still have.

If you've got a cool million to build a new team with, you roll blocking dice, and elves dodge on a 2+, it's third edition. Everything else is just details.

Quote:
I like the idea of humans, orcs and to some extent dwarfs having a larger number of positionals as the jack of all trade and traditional teams, but they all feel a bit too samey if all teams have all positionals. The only difference I can see between them is a minus MA here and plus AV there other than that they all look to develop the same way.

In second edition, Humans and Orcs were identical! (Except for their available Star Players.) In the rosters I've posted for them, they have all the same positions available, but are still quite distinct, I think. Both really formidable rosters with a lot of power and flexibility though, I think.

Quote:
The elf team looks too quick, too agile and too cheap in comparison tot he other thee rosters because on day 1 you do only need 11 players and elves are famous for winning with under 11 players.

Could be, but keep in mind: 70K re-rolls! That's a real gut punch for elves. Almost everyone is at AV 7 — and under this rules set we do not tolerate elfball. If you have found a way to elfball, you are not playing sixth edition.

If you manage to build them into a Globetrotters-like team, then, yes, you may well start winning every game — at a cost, and that cost will beat you down over time, because you don't get to elfball. This is the same situation that has always applied to the likes of Wood Elves and Skaven in serious leagues and other BB systems designed to prohibit elfball.

Quote:
Anyway I would like to see a bit more of your ideas and encourage everyone to leave whatever happened in the other thread there (I don't know what it was) and focus on what is being discussed only in this thread.

There will be more. Perhaps I'll even post one of the more exciting key rules changes this evening! Very Happy

(Unless I get banned for Fending off unpleasant posters. Sad)

_________________
Join us in building Blood Bowl Sixth Edition.
In other news, the Hittites are back. Join us in #fumbbl.hi Very Happy
Display posts from previous:     
 Jump to:   
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Powered by PNphpBB2 1.2 © 2003 PNphpBB Group
Credits