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pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 19:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Nielsh wrote:
On the plus side I have never seen as much activity on the forum since Spiros "Wizard in common match vs high CR coach - lammer opton ?" forum thread.

Oh god, is Spiro still here ever?

I love that guy! Very Happy

Was he right about pseudo-randomness in the client though …? XD

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easilyamused



Joined: Jun 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 19:14
FUMBBL Staff
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Ok pac, you win.

If you really want me to I will go through the whole thread later and remove all the crap. However that will probably result in this thread going back to 1 page.

If you didn't feel the need to fend off your perceived persecutors all the time you may have actually got somewhere more productive with this thread by now.

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pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 19:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Player Development

SPPs are gained in the standard way for third edition Blood Bowl:

5 SPPs for MVP
3 SPPs for a TD
2 SPPs for an Interception
2 SPPs for a Casualty
1 SPP for a Completed Pass

Optionally — I welcome opinions on this one — we could allow players to gain 1 SPP for any game where they made an appearance on the pitch, and similarly for holding the ball:

1 SPP for Holding the Ball (never more than 1 SPP per match regardless of how many times the player held the ball)
1 SPP for Appearing on the Pitch (max. 1 SPP per game; if a player sits in the reserves (or wherever) all match, they get nothing)

SPPs for holding the ball encourages more dynamic plays with more ball movement, and not just relying on a single Sure Hands ball-carrier and nothing else (or whatever). SPPs for appearances encourage squad rotation and help out the likes of Saurus and Black Orcs who don't usually do much else other than Block, but often take a long time to rack up CAS.


When a Rookie reaches 6 SPPs, his or her coach throws 2D6 and applies these modifiers:

+2 if the roster includes no Stars (what's a Star mean here? Read on)
+1 if the roster includes 1–2 Stars
-1 if the roster includes 4–5 Stars
-1 if the player is a Lineman/rat/elf/etc (any 0–20 player on the roster)
-1 if the player is a Big Guy (does not apply to Ogre teams or other Big Guy rosters)
-1 if the player is a Stunty (does not apply to Stunty rosters)

NB: If the squad already includes *6* Stars (which is rare), then no further player will ever become a Star (you don't even roll). If you want Rookies to stand a chance of becoming Stars, don't get more than 5 Stars.

If the total rolled is 11 or more, the Rookie becomes a Star (see below). Otherwise, the Star becomes a Journeyman (read on).

Rookies, Journeymen, Stars: three distinct types of players that you can have on your permanent roster under this rules set. Rookies can become Journeymen or Stars, but once a player is a Journeymen (or a Star) they can never switch tracks and become the other type of player.


Journeymen

Journeymen are the hard-working men and women of Blood Bowl. Once you get out of the teething phase of a new team of fresh-faced Rookies, most of your squad will always consist of Journeymen.

Journeymen level up as follows:

6–15 SPPs — Journeyman Pro — one skill (or stat bonus)
16–50 SPPs — Experienced Journeyman — two skills
51–100 SPPs — Senior Journeyman — three skills
101+ SPPs — Veteran Journeyman — four skills

Advances are rolled in the way we're used to:

2–9 — Skill
10 — +MA* or skill
11 — +AG or skill
12 — +ST or skill

(*How has the (relatively new) experiment of allowing +AV on a 10 been going? I have no problem with permitting a 10 to be used for +AV as well if people have been finding that to their liking.)

On a double, the player may take a skill from any category (except mutations*). (There are no Traits in sixth edition — although we may add a special category [N] for skills that no player can access without a double.)

*For players which can mutate, it will be noted on their roster whether they may do so on doubles or on any roll.


Stars

Some Rookies blossom very quickly indeed into exceptional players! Use them and love them.

But bear in mind, the more Stars you have, the less likely you are to roll more. (If you have no Stars, a 9+ on 2D6 will generate one from a Rookie positional (see above) — this is going to be very common.) If Stars are not pulling their weight, sacking them from the squad may help you get a better one from the next wave of Rookies coming through.

Stars get three skill rolls immediately (if they pass the check at 6 SPPs) and then continue to get further skills during their career:

6–15 — Emerging Star — *three* skills (or stat bonuses)
16–50 — Star Player — four skills
51–100 — Super-Star — five skills
101–250 — Mega-Star — six skills
251+ — Legend — seven skills

A Star's advances are rolled up in the same way as a Journeyman's. When giving an Emerging Star its three skills, each roll must be made separately, one at a time, and the skill/stat bonus chosen and fixed before the next roll is made.


Quirks

Stars are exciting and powerful players, but they are also very demanding and cause troubles through the whole squad.

Every time a Star levels up, he or she gains another Quirk:

6–15 — Emerging Star — one Quirk
16–50 — Star Player — two Quirks
51–100 — Super-Star — three Quirks
101–250 — Mega-Star — four Quirks
251+ — Legend — five Quirks

Quirks are always bad. Each Quirk is an expectation that the player has about the team. If it is not met, then the Star becomes Disillusioned — this means that the team always counts as having one less team re-roll (whether or not the Star is on the pitch) until the Quirk's conditions are met (this can only change outside of a match).

Getting a full fun set of Quirks will take a lot of brainstorming, so here is one for now:

Main Man — Quirk
This Star expects to be the top dog in his position. If any player with the same position on the roster has more SPPs than the Star, then the Star becomes Disillusioned.


Note that Kickers are always 0–1: a Kicker with this Quirk will never cause any problems. On the other hand, if you have three experienced Blockers, and then get a fourth with this Quirk, you are either going to have to sack him, accept the loss of a re-roll indefinitely, or sack the rest of your Blockers … not an appetising choice. But that's managing Stars for you! Very Happy

A player can only be Disillusioned once: if a Star has 4 Quirks, and all of them are activated, the player still only counts as being Disillusioned once, and so will not cost you more than one re-roll.

OTOH, if you manage to get 6 Stars (the maximum — guided by second edition tradition with the Reikland Reavers and Gouged Eye), they might all end up Disillusioned, costing you 6 RRs! They had better be good Stars! XD


The up-shot of all these rules is that *all* teams — even the toughest — will want to see some player turn-over. Always try to get more Rookies in when you can: they might become Stars! Clear out your roster of overvalued players from time to time (we will use SPPs, not advances, to determine TR, so all high SPP players need to justify their place on the roster!). If you roll a Star, but get nothing but ordinary rolls on a Lineman, is it worth keeping them? It could be reducing your chances of rolling up a better one.

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Last edited by pac on Apr 20, 2016 - 20:08; edited 3 times in total
pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 19:51 Reply with quote Back to top

easilyamused wrote:
If you didn't feel the need to fend off your perceived persecutors all the time you may have actually got somewhere more productive with this thread by now.

I know, but what can I say? I confess. I enjoy arguing on the internet. Wink
pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 20:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Here are some Quirks I've brainstormed. Some are based on second edition traits that Stars could have. Some come from a House Rules set I once used off-line (which has a lot in common with what I'm working now, but had a lot of unnecessary complexity). Some come from CM/FM ideas. And some just emerge by themselves.

I welcome more Quirk ideas! They don't need to be balanced: it's the luck of the draw with these new-fangled things called Stars! XD


Xenophobe
This Star cannot stand players not of his species. The Star becomes Disillusioned if there are any players on the roster of a different race from the Star. [Note: Implementing this Quirk would require annotating each roster list, noting which positionals count as a different species from the Lineplayers. On the Sea Elf list, do all the elf positionals count as a different species, because (except for the Kicker) they are actually Wood/High/Dark Elves? Probably! XD]

Clean
This Star despises foulers. If any player in the squad (including the Star himself!) has Dirty Player, this Star becomes Disillusioned.

Brutal
This Star knows that the best way to win at Blood Bowl is to clear the pitch. If his squad does not include at least two Dirty Players (the Star included), he becomes Disillusioned.

Tactical
This Star knows that every positional available on the roster has its role. If his squad does not include at least one player from every available position on the roster (Big Guys excepted), the Star becomes Disillusioned.

Flair
This Star likes to believe that he has more tricks up his sleeve than anyone else in his squad. If this Star has fewer skills (including base skills and skills from player development, but not stat-ups) than any other player (Star, Rookie or Journeyman), then he becomes Disillusioned. If he has the most skills of any player, he does not.

Fan's Favourite
If this Star's team has higher Fan Factor than their opposition (or if it's equal), then this Star does *not* become Disillusioned. If their FF is lower, the player is Disillusioned for the match.

Low Profile
Good roll! This Star works hard and behaves much like a Journeyman would do. This Quirk never causes Disillusionment — but the Star may still possess other Quirks that do.

Superstitious
Roll a dice at the start of each match this Star's squad is involved in (even if the Star is injured!). If you roll a 1, the Star is Disillusioned.

Mercenary
Before each match, you may choose to pay this Star 10K. If you do not, he will be Disillusioned for the match.

No Faith in Medicine
If the team has an Apothecary, this Star will always be Disillusioned.


More suggestions are welcome!


How are Quirks rolled up?

Probably by the site, using a D#ofQuirksinvented, for an even chance of any of them. If a Star rolls a Quirk they already have, then good roll! You don't gain another Quirk at this level! Very Happy

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Seventyone



Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 21:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Quirks seem like fun. How about

Flirtacious
If there are cheerleaders present in the game (for either team) then he becomes distracted (gains the loner skill for that game)?

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pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 22:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Seventyone wrote:
Quirks seem like fun. How about

Flirtacious
If there are cheerleaders present in the game (for either team) then he becomes distracted (gains the loner skill for that game)?

Oh, that's good, but I'd want to stick to the standard that an activated Quirk causes Disillusionment, so:

Flirtatious
If the squad does not have any Cheerleaders, the Star becomes Disillusioned.


We can follow that up with:

Committed Trainer
This Star is very committed to his training regime. If the squad does not have any Assistant Coaches, the Star becomes Disillusioned.

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mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 21, 2016 - 09:52
FUMBBL Staff
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I really liked the second edition roll for rookies to become Stars or Veterans, so it's interesting to see you bringing that in (I don't think Journeymen is the right term for your non-stars, as that implies moving around lots of teams). I'm not sure how well the system works, but it is fun. I think for a complete ruleset it's probably a bit too 'random' and start up Leagues (and things like RRRs) would be dominated by whoever did well on the Star rolls.

The Quirks are a fun addition. There probably needs to be some exclusive ones in there (eg. same player can't be clean and brutal).

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kilinrax



Joined: Jan 12, 2015

Post   Posted: Apr 21, 2016 - 12:33 Reply with quote Back to top

pac wrote:
Optionally — I welcome opinions on this one — we could allow players to gain 1 SPP for any game where they made an appearance on the pitch, and similarly for holding the ball:

1 SPP for Holding the Ball (never more than 1 SPP per match regardless of how many times the player held the ball)
1 SPP for Appearing on the Pitch (max. 1 SPP per game; if a player sits in the reserves (or wherever) all match, they get nothing)


Someone (PainState, maybe?) suggested something similar on the forums not long ago, along with removing SPP for a CAS, to discourage rapid Legend development via ClawPOMB.

I like the idea, but I think you'd need to balance the average SPP per match somehow, or increase the thresholds for skills (which you seem to have done, to a degree).

If a team is guaranteed to get 11-16SPP per match without even picking up the ball, then I think you'd probably need to get rid of the MVP award. And completion SPP. At least.

Another idea I've considered is splitting the SPP for a CAS; one for the player that causes the CAS and one for the player that gets taken off, to discourage concessions in the face of heavy casualties (sure your star might get a broken neck, but your players will learn from the bad defeat and emerge stronger/wiser).

Really like the quirks concept!
Seventyone



Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Post   Posted: Apr 21, 2016 - 12:39 Reply with quote Back to top

What about weather related quirks?

A player that hates the rain for example?

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kilinrax



Joined: Jan 12, 2015

Post   Posted: Apr 21, 2016 - 12:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Given disillusionment presumably can't affect Leader rerolls, unless the player with disillusionment is also the one with Leader, I'd expect coaches will want their Journeymen to have Leader, hence ...

Rebel
The player becomes disillusioned if any player in his team other than him has the Leader skill
pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005

Post   Posted: May 28, 2016 - 02:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Sorry for no more posts. Lots of other projects and, you know, not everyone was welcoming here. Smile

This turns out to hardly be the only set of forums out there that's got hostility and dog-piling issues.

I have no idea what people are so up-tight about these days. Everything's pretty okay, isn't it? If it's not for you, sorry, but railing against someone on an internet forum isn't even going to be a temporary solution.

I don't curl up and cry when people make all these posts saying I don't "have the right" (where are you getting this from? You know how rights work, don't you? That's not it! If you think someone doesn't have the right, you send for a lawyer, you don't wave your fist at them) — I just go out and have a different kind of fun. *shrugs*

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pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Jul 01, 2016 - 03:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Slann

0–20 Linemen 60K 6 3 3 8 Leap G
0–4 Catchers 90K 8 2 3 7 Catch, VLL, Leap GA
0–2 Blitzers 100K 7 3 3 8 Block, Leap GS
0–2 Saurus Blockers 80K 6 4 1 9 GS
0-1 Slann Magus 130K 5 4 2 10 Leader, Grab, Hypnotic Gaze S[N]

Re-rolls: 70K


Here's a new list, with some ideas incorporated from our friend Synn. We welcome comments.

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xyon



Joined: Apr 19, 2005

Post   Posted: Jul 01, 2016 - 04:36 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm favorable of most of what you're trying to do by trying to write up a LRB6, seems like whenever anyone brings up trying to write an alternative set of rules more people are negative than positive about it, I know from when I've braught things up.

Here are some things I'd like to see added, and wonder if you think they'd be worthwhile adding to the game.

Gold values for players broken up so that they are in 5k increments instead of 10k increments, instead of 50k, 60k, 70k, etc, there would at least be some refined pricing, 50k, 55k, 60k, 65k, etc.

Not all skills add equal value to players. With so many skills, some are clearly better than others, and are more fundamental to offence and defence. Instead of general skills being worth a set ammount, and double skills being worth a set ammount, I think each skill should have its own set ammount of value it adds to a player based on its own utility.

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pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Jul 01, 2016 - 06:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for the comments.

xyon wrote:
Gold values for players broken up so that they are in 5k increments instead of 10k increments, instead of 50k, 60k, 70k, etc, there would at least be some refined pricing, 50k, 55k, 60k, 65k, etc.

I agree that we could do this. 10K increments are just a convention.

Quote:
Not all skills add equal value to players. With so many skills, some are clearly better than others, and are more fundamental to offence and defence. Instead of general skills being worth a set ammount, and double skills being worth a set ammount, I think each skill should have its own set ammount of value it adds to a player based on its own utility.

I set pricing by the final player itself, feedback and testing, rather than on a formula alone.

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