| Poll |
| Where should I apply the 'uncontested catch' rule? |
| You shouldn't. AG3 passing is perfectly fine. |
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75% |
[ 51 ] |
| Make it a passing skill. Perfect Spiral. |
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10% |
[ 7 ] |
| Add it to a marginal passing skill. |
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4% |
[ 3 ] |
| Add it to the Pass skill. |
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10% |
[ 7 ] |
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| Total Votes : 68 |
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plasmoid
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
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 Posted:
Apr 23, 2016 - 01:50 |
 
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Hi all,
I think passing is generally percieved to be too risky for most teams. Running (and stalling) are the most popular tactics in BB, while the range ruler is popularly referred to as the lose-o-meter.
I'd love for passing to more viable.
But I wouldn't want to buff elven passing. Elven passing is fine.
So I came up with this idea: A +1 modifier for an 'uncontested catch' of an accurate pass (not hand-off). Uncontested means that no negative modifiers apply to the roll (so no TZs, no rain and no disturbing presence).
It would mean that an AG3 player making an uncontested catch would require a 2+ rather than a 3+. (In a TZ or in the rain he'd still need a 4+).
An AG4 player would be unaffacted.
My question is, where do you think it would be most appropriate to apply the modfÃfier?
Cheers
Martin |
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deyempe
Joined: Aug 14, 2013
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| Posted:
Apr 23, 2016 - 01:56 |
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I like the sound of this idea. It seems fair and reasonable to me.
I'd say add it to the catch roll (not skill itself): if accurate pass & no negative modifiers, catch+1.
That would make the passing game more viable for Ag3. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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| Posted:
Apr 23, 2016 - 02:09 |
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I like this idea. Human Catchers right now can get this BUT they have to take Diving Catch.
Now, lets look at the poll.
Adding the +1 to pass does not make sense. It already gives you the benefit of a free reroll.
Adding the +1 to accurate? That might work.
Adding the +1 to Strong Arm? The fluff is he can throw it farther and negate a -1 range modifier.
Add a new thrower skill, like Perfect spiral? Well, that adds a skill that a thrower would need. Yet, a human catcher can take Diving Catch. So it is a wash, no change on how it works right now. The only change is the Thrower has to take "the skill" instead of the catcher.
SO, all that being said. A "catcher" with no TZ on him gets an additional +1 on top of the normal +1 for perfect pass. MMMM, this is a tough call. My gut says make the catcher take Diving Catch if he want to catch like elves or add the Perfect spiral and make the Thrower "pay" the cost.
I quess that makes me fall in AG3 passing is perfectly fine, you just have to take the skill, DC or Perfect Pass to make it happen. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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| Posted:
Apr 23, 2016 - 02:13 |
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Now, lets say I play Khemri. Well, IAM ALL ON BOARD BABY!!! +1 to catch a accurate pass and +1 for uncontested catch.
In essence the entire roster just got a + AG buff for catching.
Tomb Guardians..AG 1...Now have a effective AG2 on a accurate pass with reroll... 75% chance to catch the ball.
Blitzer and Linemen only fail on a 1/9 fail.
GOLDEN!!!!!!!! Passing Khemri is on the rise. |
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Last edited by PainState on %b %23, %2016 - %02:%Apr; edited 3 times in total |
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plasmoid
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 23, 2016 - 02:15 |
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Hi PainState,
quick thing: I think it is a lot better to get this modifier on anyone that the skilled player throws to, than to need to take a skill on every single player WHO wants to catch better.
Cheers
Martin |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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| Posted:
Apr 23, 2016 - 02:21 |
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| plasmoid wrote: | Hi PainState,
quick thing: I think it is a lot better to get this modifier on anyone that the skilled player throws to, than to need to take a skill on every single player WHO wants to catch better.
Cheers
Martin |
I hear you.
BUT
IF catchers can no longer catch the ball better than a lino? Then why ever take a catcher? Sure, you could argue that a catcher has access to catch skill, but if it has been to reduced to 2+ with no free reroll? I will always risk a 2+ roll with no free reroll.
Some rosters now get a huge buff and some rosters have their catcher positional reduced in importance.
It is a give and take. Depending on what roster we are talking about. Undead AG1/2 teams get the lion share boost. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Apr 23, 2016 - 02:22 |
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I certainly agree that the passing game needs a buff. DukeTyrion suggested that Safe Throw and Pass be combined; it seems a good idea to me.
I also think maybe a similar answer for your idea too. How about the Catch skill not only allows you to reroll the catch, but also gives a +1 modifier (no matter what).
This gives catchers a boost, promotes dedicated passing teams and makes throwing a little bit more reliable. |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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| Posted:
Apr 23, 2016 - 02:27 |
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I don't know, the teams that have AG < 4 tend to have other things to make up for it (S access, mostly). Making passing play available on 2+2+ for AG3 teams with only accurate on the thrower... I'm not a fan (unless you want to compensate for it by buffing AG4+ somehow as well). A passing skill that gives a +1 to catching uncontested passes, sure. But a flat-out buff to all teams that have bad agility doesn't seem like a great plan to me.
If you wanted to buff passing (catching) in general, then you could just make the 'catching an accurate pass' modifier from a +1 to a +2. By limiting it to 'uncontested', you're explicitly buffing everything with AG <4. That's a big change. |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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Apr 23, 2016 - 02:29 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | I certainly agree that the passing game needs a buff. DukeTyrion suggested that Safe Throw and Pass be combined; it seems a good idea to me.
I also think maybe a similar answer for your idea too. How about the Catch skill not only allows you to reroll the catch, but also gives a +1 modifier (no matter what).
This gives catchers a boost, promotes dedicated passing teams and makes throwing a little bit more reliable. |
I think this is all right, as the catch skill is currently pretty meh. It still means humans can make 2+2+ passing plays with only 6 SPPs on one player, now but khemri or chaos would have to spend a doubles on it; the elven catchers would become better, and dark elves might even actually take the catch skill on occasion (and if they still don't, then that probably means the change isn't exactly OP). |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 23, 2016 - 02:35 |
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I agree with the_Sage and I voted for the first option. It seems right to me that elves (and skaven) should be clearly better at passing than other teams - I mean, AG balljuggling is what they do. If humans want to play ball, roll a couple of +AGs .. |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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Apr 23, 2016 - 02:38 |
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Or load up on Accurate, Strong Arm, Diving Catch, Safe Throw, Pass, Catch .. there are a lot of options for AG3 passaholics. Extra Arms, NoS ..  |
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Tymless
Joined: Jul 01, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 23, 2016 - 02:52 |
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and another post with no pie option. Whats wrong with you guys.
I just say take diving catch. |
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Doom & Gloom |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Apr 23, 2016 - 02:53 |
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nope nope pie nope |
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Topper
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
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Apr 23, 2016 - 03:23 |
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Im 100% with Sage in this one too. The Bashing teams, would actually be buffed,by your rule suggestion, not passing as such. |
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Uedder
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
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| Posted:
Apr 23, 2016 - 04:28 |
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I don't really dig the idea in general (a passing game is way easier to manage than a running game imo), but if you wanted to do this i guess making an extra skill for the throwers is the way to go.
Want to play the passing game? Then you'd better invest in developing a proper passer.
I still think the ability to pass to any ag3 player on a 2+ 2+ with a human or orc team would be unbalanced. Hell, even dorfs could think of passing without need for doubles or +stats... that feels just wrong to me.
And really, as others pointed out, there's already a skill for your gameplay intention, and that's diving catch. Give it for free to ag3 catchers and enjoy some elfball  |
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