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Poll
Is current tournament policy as good as it could be?
Yes
50%
 50%  [ 7 ]
No
14%
 14%  [ 2 ]
Pie
35%
 35%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 14


paradocks



Joined: Jun 14, 2004

Post   Posted: Jul 06, 2016 - 14:45 Reply with quote Back to top

As brought up in a recent blog. I've personally noticed a lot of metagaming in major tournaments. In early rounds when people are scheduled against a killer team (or sometimes a better coach) they simply avoid the game while pretending to the admin that they tried their best to play it.

My experience over the last couple of years is this: you schedule to play an opponent twice, both times they don't show up, then the admin knowing full well what has happened puts it down to a coin flip.

Are the majority of fumbblers happy with this sort of policy in major tournaments? I'm interested to hear..
paradocks



Joined: Jun 14, 2004

Post   Posted: Jul 06, 2016 - 14:48 Reply with quote Back to top

The sad thing with online gaming is that if you allow people to game the system, there are people who will take advantage of this. And why not if the current tournament policy rewards for them doing so..

Bans are very rarely ever handed out to these players who dodge matches, so it's win-win. Either they pass through fresh to the next round or they lose with no injuries and apply to the next tournament to repeat the strategy.
Matthueycamo



Joined: May 16, 2014

Post   Posted: Jul 06, 2016 - 14:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Banning goes too far for me but why players still get a 50-50 chance for canceling games beats me. If you can't make an agreed time that should be a forfeit if the deadline passes before another time can be agreed.

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zakatan



Joined: May 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Jul 06, 2016 - 15:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Bans for this kind of behaviour are Official Tournament bans (30 or 60 days, longer for recurrent offenders), not site bans, and they do happen if the admins smell something fishy.

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tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 06, 2016 - 15:27 Reply with quote Back to top

It is my experience that it is not a coin flip at all. Though it is always up to the view of the tournament administrator if either party is greatly at fault, the more clear you are about your availability, and the worse your opponent is at offering and setting times and turning up to them, the more likely they will see it your way. Be as clear as you can.

I also don't see people dodging big mean teams particularly, it's just that there's a lot of big mean teams in tournaments. Instead people just don't make every game, real life intercedes and they can't. It happens, in leagues, in tournies, even in ranked and box sometimes people genuinely just can't play all of a sudden.

And some people are just disorganised and don't turn up. That is also part of life. Be clear, plan in system time, use the scheduler, turn up, you'll be fine, that is my experience.

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Purplegoo



Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Post   Posted: Jul 06, 2016 - 15:41 Reply with quote Back to top

It's not an easy job, forfeiting games. You can only do the best you can do with the information you're given, and even then people get upset when they disagree.

I'm sure if it was clear a coach was avoiding a tough / very bashy game or a convincing pattern emerged suggesting that's what was going on over time, things would escalate. As noted above, real life does happen, and distinguishing that from people trying to pull a fast one must be a nightmare.
Verminardo



Joined: Sep 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Jul 06, 2016 - 15:44 Reply with quote Back to top

Nothing of the kind has ever happened to me. I've never once had an opponent where I thought they were faking limited availability. Usually people make an effort to get the game played, even if the match-up doesn't favour them. A few are a bit... less forthcoming, shall we say. But I've never had reason to suspect foul play.

As an admin, you'd want to be pretty sure there is foul play involved before you accuse someone of it. In my very limited experience with forfeits, the decisions all were fair.
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Jul 06, 2016 - 15:50 Reply with quote Back to top

paradocks wrote:


My experience over the last couple of years is this: you schedule to play an opponent twice, both times they don't show up, then the admin knowing full well what has happened puts it down to a coin flip.



This is not my experience at all. The tourny admins have always done a very good job of adjudicting these things, and if one player misses a couple of arranged times to play (and this is evidenced by a PM thread), then it would never go to coin flip.

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bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 06, 2016 - 15:53 Reply with quote Back to top

I always had a harder time scheduling tournament games than most other games. I just dont play tournament anymore for that reason. It could very well have been the symphtom as per OP, but i did not investigate it to be sure.

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PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 06, 2016 - 15:55 Reply with quote Back to top

I have played in the vast majority of majors for almost 9 years and I have never experienced what you describe when trying to schedule a match.

Then again maybe it is because I do not have a killer team and/or Iam not a better coach than most.

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Azure



Joined: Jan 30, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 06, 2016 - 16:01 Reply with quote Back to top

I rarely give coin flips for the tournaments I admin. I do the best I can with the information provided by the coaches to make a decision as to which coach was more available and tried hard to get the game played.

A few rules of thumb that I often use:

If a coach does not attempt to contact their opponent until more than 50% of the time has expired that they have to play - it is a mark against them. Those coaches that wait until Monday to PM their opponents and then expect their opponent to bend to their schedule with very limited time are often the ones found to be at fault.

If a coach is not specific with when they can play, giving times in a PM or using the scheduler - it is a mark against them. Simply sending messages of "When are you around?" and then "Hey can we play now?" and stuff like that without ever trying to schedule a time is viewed by me with disfavor.

If a coach does not show up for a scheduled time - this is a big mark against them.

Coin flips are only when both sides have shown lacking in attempting to get the game scheduled. If one side clearly is making no effort - then they will be forfeited against.

So - and this has been mentioned before - if you want to make sure that you do not have a game forfeited against you in a major tournament - do the following:

As soon as the tournament is drawn - send out a PM to your opponent, offer them greetings (being polite always helps), let them know when you are available throughout the next week. For example:

"Hello James! We are up in round 1 of the Black Cup. Looking forward to our game.
I am available from 1700 - 2300 server time on Weekdays except Monday. Not available on Sunday, but Saturday I am around all day server time - but would need to get it scheduled as early as possible as I have other things to do that day.
See you on the pitch,
Jill"

It is all about communication - both with your opponent and if there is a problem, with the admin. All too often what happens is the following:

Sunday night: Jack says "Hey we gotta play, when you around?"
Monday afternoon: John says "I am around tonight."
Tuesday night: Jack says "I was out last night, we gotta get this played."
Wednesday afternoon: John says "Dude, you are never around."
Wednesday night: Jack says "Dude, I hate you - you suck to schedule with."

So yeah - then I flip a coin and sigh because I would love to just forfeit both of them Smile
happygrue



Joined: Oct 15, 2010

Post   Posted: Jul 06, 2016 - 16:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Azure wrote:

It is all about communication - both with your opponent and if there is a problem, with the admin. All too often what happens is the following:

Sunday night: Jack says "Hey we gotta play, when you around?"
Monday afternoon: John says "I am around tonight."
Tuesday night: Jack says "I was out last night, we gotta get this played."
Wednesday afternoon: John says "Dude, you are never around."
Wednesday night: Jack says "Dude, I hate you - you suck to schedule with."

So yeah - then I flip a coin and sigh because I would love to just forfeit both of them Smile


Laughing

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easilyamused



Joined: Jun 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Jul 06, 2016 - 16:21 Reply with quote Back to top

paradocks wrote:
As brought up in a recent blog. I've personally noticed a lot of metagaming in major tournaments. In early rounds when people are scheduled against a killer team (or sometimes a better coach) they simply avoid the game while pretending to the admin that they tried their best to play it.

My experience over the last couple of years is this: you schedule to play an opponent twice, both times they don't show up, then the admin knowing full well what has happened puts it down to a coin flip.

Are the majority of fumbblers happy with this sort of policy in major tournaments? I'm interested to hear..


If you have issues on how decisions are made when a game is not played then send me a PM.

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Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Jul 06, 2016 - 16:35 Reply with quote Back to top

As I tried to explain in the blog:

The cases covered there were certainly NOT a result of metagaming. And not one of these matches were decided on a cointoss.
Dalfort



Joined: Jun 23, 2008

Post   Posted: Jul 06, 2016 - 20:27 Reply with quote Back to top

easilyamused wrote:
paradocks wrote:
As brought up in a recent blog. I've personally noticed a lot of metagaming in major tournaments. In early rounds when people are scheduled against a killer team (or sometimes a better coach) they simply avoid the game while pretending to the admin that they tried their best to play it.

My experience over the last couple of years is this: you schedule to play an opponent twice, both times they don't show up, then the admin knowing full well what has happened puts it down to a coin flip.

Are the majority of fumbblers happy with this sort of policy in major tournaments? I'm interested to hear..


If you have issues on how decisions are made when a game is not played then send me a PM.


This is the last word. The Tournament Manager has spoken.

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