plasmoid
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
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Jul 08, 2016 - 10:12 |
 
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Hi Harvestmouse,
I'm not exactly sure what my transgression is(?)
1) Is it that I forgot it in the first post (since it isn't official) and still mention it later on?
2) Or is it that I bring it up at all?
If (1) then yep, I forgot, and still posted my own opinion midway through the thread. If anyone else agrees or disagrees with my assessment, they're very welcome to chip in.
If (2) then this is a forum full of BB players, and since I'm guessing that the majority of BB players know the roster, I figured there might well be people here who had played with or against the team. On another platform.
Cheers
Martin |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Jul 08, 2016 - 10:29 |
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But... But.....
Oh, it doesn't matter. This theoretical stuff is really good at sucking people (er, me) into long forum debates, but there's no tangible end to argue over / no need to defend the status quo that won't change, so I should sit on my hands. There's that excellent cartoon floating around ('come to bed' 'I can't, someone is wrong on the Internet') I should print out and tape to my keyboard.
Enjoy, and I will continue to enjoy my excellent value Ogre.  |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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Jul 08, 2016 - 11:35 |
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I would suggest taking a look at the data in addition to this small expert comitee you've just created here.
I would start by looking the ratio of successful teams (winning record) that use the big guys at diverse TV ranges. Low ratios would indicate that there's something wrong with the big guy (price or otherwise). Maybe some of the data guys around here can be of help (koadah maybe?). |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jul 08, 2016 - 14:44 |
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| plasmoid wrote: | Hi Harvestmouse,
I'm not exactly sure what my transgression is(?)
1) Is it that I forgot it in the first post (since it isn't official) and still mention it later on?
2) Or is it that I bring it up at all?
If (1) then yep, I forgot, and still posted my own opinion midway through the thread. If anyone else agrees or disagrees with my assessment, they're very welcome to chip in.
If (2) then this is a forum full of BB players, and since I'm guessing that the majority of BB players know the roster, I figured there might well be people here who had played with or against the team. On another platform.
Cheers
Martin |
If you don't know, then you are a lost cause Martin.
1. You forgot about it because it is a out of rules roster.
2. FUMBBL does not play the Khorne roster so it is pointless asking here. They may know it, but that shouldn't be a presumption they've played it.
3. What is the point of asking about it? What is the point of asking about it after you have posted and received opinions.
4. You stated a correction on it's price, even though you received no feedback from it, because you hadn't posted it in the original post.
5. Why would FUMBBL give 2 poos about it's corrected pricing when it makes no difference to here? If you were aware of anything going on with FUMBBL, you'd know we now have custom rosters and are using there's been no interest in using this as a custom Khorne roster.
I hope this helps you understand why ad-hocing a non official roster, that a site doesn't use, half way through a thread was not the right thing to do.
regards,
Leo |
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DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
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Jul 08, 2016 - 15:11 |
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Big guys are bloat at most reasonable price points due to negatraits and loner. Everytime I take one, I regret it. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Jul 08, 2016 - 15:49 |
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Whoa, hold on, you guys are missing the biggest issue of all with big guys.
Back in the day, LRB4, Big guys could only take 4 skills. THUS if you stuck with him you where going to get 3 double rolls if he made it legend.
Now with CRP, big guys are no longer guaranteed any doubles, they have to many S access skills.
Once the big guys lost the guarantee of doubles it killed them. |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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Jul 08, 2016 - 16:17 |
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| PainState wrote: | Whoa, hold on, you guys are missing the biggest issue of all with big guys.
Back in the day, LRB4, Big guys could only take 4 skills. THUS if you stuck with him you where going to get 3 double rolls if he made it legend.
Now with CRP, big guys are no longer guaranteed any doubles, they have to many S access skills.
Once the big guys lost the guarantee of doubles it killed them. |
They can have useless skills instead  |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jul 08, 2016 - 16:54 |
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I wish this whole edition would be scrapped and moved away from this horrible power gamer form it has taken. boo to CRP yay to Lrb4 and all its fluffy fun
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jul 08, 2016 - 16:56 |
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| DarthPhysicist wrote: | | Big guys are bloat at most reasonable price points due to negatraits and loner. Everytime I take one, I regret it. |
Don't forget no regular access to G skills, that is a huge drawback as well. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Jul 08, 2016 - 17:16 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | DarthPhysicist wrote: | | Big guys are bloat at most reasonable price points due to negatraits and loner. Everytime I take one, I regret it. |
Don't forget no regular access to G skills, that is a huge drawback as well. |
To reinforce my point I made. LRB4 Big Guys where guaranteed G/A/P access at some point if you stuck with them.
CRP Big guys though, lets just take our lovable Ogre out to 76SPP. I have 5 shots to roll a double or +STAT, no bad odds in the big picture. Let say I come up "craps". SO Iam left with a Ogre with:
PileOn: Great skill for a Big Guy
Guard: Never have enough of this
Break Tackle: Good skill for a High ST player
Stand Firm: Nice skill for a high ST player.
Now is when I enter the black hole of CRP Big guys, at this point Iam hoping and praying beyond hope on 76SPP I get that double, nope, denied.
So now I have to take Multi Block because Strong Arm does him no good.
Wow made it to legend, RAHHHH!!! Oh, snap another normal roll, sigh, got to take strong arm even though I will never use it.
This is why big guys got the royal nerf under CRP. With the removal of traits now big guys are stuck with 6 skills and the only way to break that is by rolling, IMO, 2 doubles or +Stats.
Now the Big Guys with Mutation access, that is a totally different story. They are no longer stuck with 6 skills but now have Claw, Tentacles, Foul Apperance, Disturbing presence and tail. All good big guy mutations depending on which way you are building him.
So it should come as no shock that when the discussion of which big guys are good/bad/over priced in CRP the mutation access ones are considered good and priced right, including the Krox because he is a Ogre with a tail. All the others are crap or over priced because of their lack of skill access.
**PainStates big guy rant**
Chaos Mino is hands down the single best player to KILL other players with. With 2 skills he CPOMBs, Blitzes with 3DB's with 1 assist. Yes, he has a 1/6 of malfunctioning but his pure power will wreck teams. Oh, AV8? Who cares? Fine, he gets taken out. 16SPP later on the new one and off you go wrecking teams left and right. Rinse/Repeat.
And I have found that NUFFLE likes Chaos Minos because you have a higher % chance of rolling the +ST, it is a fact. ST6 Chaos Mino is a BOSS.
Taken down when he was surrounded by 4 Tomb Guardians It was a royal smack down but alas, he was swarmed and taken out and shot by the Apoth.
I can feel it, he is destined for Legend! |
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Last edited by PainState on %b %08, %2016 - %17:%Jul; edited 2 times in total |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Jul 08, 2016 - 17:27 |
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| Garion wrote: | I wish this whole edition would be scrapped and moved away from this horrible power gamer form it has taken. boo to CRP yay to Lrb4 and all its fluffy fun
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I never once saw anyone powergame, minmax or do anything not fluff first in LRB4. Apart from the (same amount of) powergamers, minmaxers and guys that wouldn't know fluff if it walked up and, erm, fluffed them.
Kidding aside, and it is tangential to the general discussion (plus, I know your tongue is planted into your cheek), there is this revisionist history about on FUMBBL surrounding LRB4. This stuff will always go on, I even remember front page news posts that celebrated it back then. It's the Internet, competitive souls will attempt to squeeze what they can out of a ruleset. I think it's much more transparent in CRP, but if you knew what you were doing and what to look for in LRB4, it was all there in the same amounts.
Like x better than y all you like, we all have equally valid opinions on that. Just don't let misty eyed nostalgia ruin you. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Jul 08, 2016 - 17:33 |
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| Purplegoo wrote: | It's the Internet, competitive souls will attempt to squeeze what they can out of a ruleset. I think it's much more transparent in CRP, but if you knew what you were doing and what to look for in LRB4, it was all there in the same amounts.
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I agree 100% with this thought. Never forget the lessons of Black Box Version 1.0 and why it imploded and then exploded and turned into a desolate wasteland. It was not because of a overabundance of FLUFF that was the cause.   |
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plasmoid
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
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Jul 08, 2016 - 22:53 |
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Hi Harvestmouse,
this is a forum with BB players, and I'm betting a lot of them have the ability to analyze a statline or a team. Some of them might well have played or played against the Khorne team.
You're absolutely right that correcting the Bloodthirsters Price wouldn't have any effect here. But neither would anything else we're discussing, unless I'm missing something. So I was hoping that there might be coaches here who are altruistically inclined, or who like to discuss Blood Bowl for the sheer heck of it.
So I threw my own opinion into the mix. Perhaps someone will agree. Or disagree. Perhaps not.
Cheers
Martin |
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plasmoid
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
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Jul 08, 2016 - 23:12 |
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Hi all - especially Pgoo and PainState,
Purplegoo, you're absolutely right. Nothing tangible will ever come of this, so if the missus is luring you to bed, then off you go . I'd wager that some of your Ogre enjoyment is due to the Human team getting a bonus doubles on day one in many res-tournaments. Blocked up they get soooo much better. Ah, but never mind. Seriously. (You may surmise that my missus isn't luring me anywhere tonight )
PainState said:
| Quote: | | Now is when I enter the black hole of CRP Big guys, at this point Iam hoping and praying beyond hope on 76SPP I get that double, nope, denied. |
Very interesting point!
Does anyone even bother to take them to that many SPPs anyway? Though if they don't, then that might be exactly for the reason you describe....
After the big 4 (Guard, Stand Firm, Piling On and (perhaps) Break Tackle) there are a few options left: Thick Skull for some, Grab, Juggernaut, MultiBlock and Strong Arm.
And they are - as you say - all fairly worthless.
(I do find Grab to be better than it's reputation, but I'm probably just wrong).
Would Big Guys be more interesting if their options were better? And do these skills really need to be that sucky?
What if Grab also worked on Blitzes? Or if it was merged with Juggernaut? Or both?
What if Juggernauts 'bothdown = push' also worked on Block actions? It would make Big Guys less turnover prone (but would not combo well if you did manage to roll your doubles (i.e. Block)
What if MultiBlock allowed you to follow up on the first block before throwing the second one?
I think it might spice up more than just the big Guys.
Cheers
Martin |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Jul 08, 2016 - 23:37 |
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ARE SNOTLINGS FAIRLY PRICED?
IS CHEESE FAIRLY PRICED?
IS THE LOVE OF A PUPPY FAIRLY PRICED?
This is up there for the most pointless thread of the year. |
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