ph0enyx13
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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 Posted:
Jun 22, 2016 - 16:57 |
 
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So I always hear people say the only reason to play rats over wood elves is for the rat ogre or the only reason to play wood elves over rats is for the tree. I understand why you would take a tree, it is av 10 and 1 less elf to hit. But line rats are much cheaper and generally you don't care about rats dying unless they are one turners or storm vermin.
So what do you think of the rat ogre and of how he relates to the skaven team?
Also 2 side questions
1. What do you think of the snow troll and how he relates to the Norse
2.should underworld be able to field a warpstone troll AND a rat ogre? |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jun 22, 2016 - 17:01 |
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both those statements are horrible untrue. Both wood elf and skaven are great rosters without their big guy, both are probably weaker with their big guy. |
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deyempe
Joined: Aug 14, 2013
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Jun 22, 2016 - 17:06 |
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Personnaly I dont like my skaven without Rogre. Sure he's not the best biggy out there and he is/can be unreliable, however usually you'll take 4x GR's which are great players but only S2, with access to just 2 blitzers and shoddy linrats.. the Rogre really has a place on the team imo.
None of mine have gotten any yet but I belive he gets M on doubles? Give it Juggz/block, Horns and if lucky later Pro and you have a wiked Blitzer - just saying. The trick to using him is to be very selective about who/what you are blitzing, DONT put him near the LoS.
1.I usually take a Troll on Norse, not sure why.
2.Yes I think that would make Undies a much more attractive team (for me). |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Jun 22, 2016 - 17:14 |
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The Rat Ogre certainly can help you to give you some 2dbs against opponents who otherwise would match or slightly outstrength you. Frenzy is a useful threat too though I think on anything less than move 7 you have a lot of chance to end out of position when blitzing. They are a potent blitzer particularly if you don't have a developed Skaven blitzer. Prehensile tail could occasionally be useful but you probably wont play it as a roadblock. However as with a Minotaur having Wild Animal and loner is an awful combination in terms of missing turns including blitzes, and not being able to rr when you need to.
I usually take a Rat Ogre for a while and when it dies I play without it for a while. Eventually I miss his strength and try again. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jun 22, 2016 - 17:28 |
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| Garion wrote: | | both are probably weaker with their big guy. |
I'm not sure Wood Elves are always weaker with the Treeman.
I think it's TV and match up related.
For example vs Dwarfs a Treeman is useful, in my opinion. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %22, %2016 - %17:%Jun; edited 1 time in total |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jun 22, 2016 - 17:29 |
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yup would agree |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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Jun 22, 2016 - 17:31 |
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the rat ogre can punch the hole for the others to swarm through. Also gets the 2d6 domino effect going.
just make sure he gets juggernaut/block. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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I think like the other WAs the Rat Ogre can be useful at low TV but quickly loses ground once you stop blitzing with him. |
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BlodgeyDocker
Joined: Jul 22, 2013
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Jun 22, 2016 - 17:55 |
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People will answer these kind of questions mainly according to match ups.
The player is worth fielding if they are fun to use. |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Jun 22, 2016 - 17:58 |
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I don't think the rat ogre and tree are really fair for a direct comparison - they perform different roles: one is a static/passive LOS swamp you can blitz people into even when rooted and don't need to touch to get a return, the other is an active threat that you usually can't just leave around the pitch or he'll get removed or contribute very little.
Taking either is entirely up to coach and environment. But I wouldn't class either as the reason you pick any team over the other - they're just additional options in rather flexible teams.
As to Underworld: Absolutely not. The warpstone troll is basically a modern incarnation of Fat Brainsplatter (an obese mutant rat). I'd rather see them get a mutant kick/dp player after "race" o' bunyon (another mutant rat). |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Jun 22, 2016 - 18:50 |
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Rat Ogres are good for pinning guys down if you position them well. They suck up a lot of attention even if you're not blitzing with them, and they keep their TZ when they fail a 4+ roll to move. I don't like to blitz with the RO except in desperation: 2+ to not lose your Blitz action is just too big a risk, and that's before considering that you're blocking with Loner. Rat Ogres are a wash at best, but they've got real assets to go with their liabilities.
I don't play woodies. I can tell you that if I'm a midrange team I'd slightly rather play against woodies with no Tree, so he must be worth taking. If I'm a Chaos team, maybe I like to see that Treeman 'cuz he's going out anyway. If I'm an agility team, I laugh at your tree and stick one man on him. If I'm a bash team, it's a wash. I can stick a lino on him until I get his mates out or he roots down, but he could do some damage and being down men vs elves sucks.
Snow Trolls are how Norse teams deal with armor teams. Any Orc coach knows that once you get that Troll out all they can do is punch into your AV9, and you'll win that fight. The Snow Troll and his Claws give the Norse team a fighting chance.
Underworld are a deviously evil roster and need little to no help to compete with Tier 1 teams in the hands of a good coach. |
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ph0enyx13
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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Jun 22, 2016 - 22:32 |
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| Garion wrote: | | both those statements are horrible untrue. Both wood elf and skaven are great rosters without their big guy, both are probably weaker with their big guy. |
I think the argument is that they are both fast teams, great at 1 turning, and have the 2 best blitzers in the game. Along with the obvious ma7, av7, and cage busting ability.
I think when I hear people say this they mean more of one team is better than the other rather than that the roster needs the big guy |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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Jun 23, 2016 - 02:57 |
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I play Skaven a fair bit and the deal-breaker for me with the Rat Ogre is this: think about how many extra skills you can have on your four Gutter Runners for the cost of a RO (even a rookie one). It's skilled-up GRs that will win you games, more often then not. |
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DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
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Jun 23, 2016 - 03:13 |
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I hate the Rogre, but since there is no poll, all I can think of is pie. How can I rationally discuss this with pie on my mind? Does pie grow on trees? Will a rat climb a tree to get pie? Should Rogres have claws simply to achieve pie? I feel as though the mysteries of the universe are before me, if only I could experience a poll that included the option of pie! |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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Jun 23, 2016 - 03:32 |
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I heard that if you ever roll the numbers 3, 1, 4, 1 and 5 on consecutive d6 during a game of BB, a real-life cheerleader will break through your wall and give you a piece of pie  |
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