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Craftnburn



Joined: Jul 29, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 06, 2016 - 01:44 Reply with quote Back to top

tussock wrote:
Sure Hands could negate Strip Ball on an agility check (probably +1), like Safe Throw negates intercepts, so it's not a perfect counter but usually works.

+1
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 06, 2016 - 01:47 Reply with quote Back to top

@Wreckage: ok, so Sure Hands would work similar to Dump Off against a Strip Ball? Thing is, I'm not sure if that would really be much better than just dropping the ball, for a basher team. I guess it would at least give them some control over which direction it goes.

Wreckage wrote:
Power wise I don't feel like either of those skills need an adjustment. Strip Ball is still effective against teams that have players with Sure Hands.
Just not against every single player.


I see what you mean, although it's often only that one player in the middle of the cage that has the ball that really matters ..

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JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 06, 2016 - 01:53 Reply with quote Back to top

fidius wrote:
The idea would be reasonable but for the existence of Wardancers.


You make a fair point, although one thing I like about my suggestion is the model of counters that have counters that have counters ..

It is basically equivalent to saying that Frenzy counters Sure Hands (on the second block). So, Sure Hands counters Strip Ball, but then Frenzy counters Sure Hands. BUT, then a ballcarrier could take Fend or Stand Firm to counter the Frenzy. BUT the blitzer could take Juggernaut to counter those skills and still get the strip.

So, it's a counter-chain of 5 skills, including a couple that are currently not very widely-used.

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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

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DarthPhysicist



Joined: Jun 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Nov 06, 2016 - 02:07 Reply with quote Back to top

I could be convinced of Strip Ball + Mighty Blow countering Sure Hands.

Boom.

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Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Nov 06, 2016 - 07:55 Reply with quote Back to top

JellyBelly wrote:
@Wreckage: ok, so Sure Hands would work similar to Dump Off against a Strip Ball? Thing is, I'm not sure if that would really be much better than just dropping the ball, for a basher team.

Well, if you follow my whole argument, it wasn't about giving bash teams an easier time at all.

JellyBelly wrote:

Wreckage wrote:
Power wise I don't feel like either of those skills need an adjustment. Strip Ball is still effective against teams that have players with Sure Hands.
Just not against every single player.


I see what you mean, although it's often only that one player in the middle of the cage that has the ball that really matters ..

That also just means you're just doing really poorly in getting to the ball.
Uedder



Joined: Aug 03, 2010

Post   Posted: Nov 06, 2016 - 12:46 Reply with quote Back to top

And then we'll see 8 stand firm dorfs caging around the ball carrier...
bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 06, 2016 - 12:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Uedder wrote:
And then we'll see 8 stand firm dorfs caging around the ball carrier...

Fine.

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JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 06, 2016 - 14:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Wreckage wrote:
JellyBelly wrote:
@Wreckage: ok, so Sure Hands would work similar to Dump Off against a Strip Ball? Thing is, I'm not sure if that would really be much better than just dropping the ball, for a basher team.

Well, if you follow my whole argument, it wasn't about giving bash teams an easier time at all.


Ok, sorry Wreckage, I guess I must have misunderstood your argument then. I thought we were comparing this to just having Sure Hands not work at all against Strip Ball?

Wreckage wrote:

JellyBelly wrote:

Wreckage wrote:
Power wise I don't feel like either of those skills need an adjustment. Strip Ball is still effective against teams that have players with Sure Hands.
Just not against every single player.


I see what you mean, although it's often only that one player in the middle of the cage that has the ball that really matters ..

That also just means you're just doing really poorly in getting to the ball.


Well, in my experience of playing elves against good bash coaches, it can be very difficult to prevent them getting to the ball with their SH carrier on offense, unless you luck out and get a blitz (especially if they have Kick-off Return and start their cage deep).

Btw, just want to say I like tussock's idea as well, of having an agility roll to see if Sure Hands works vs SB. Make it so it doesn't work every time.

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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

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Antithesisoftime



Joined: Aug 20, 2014

Post   Posted: Nov 06, 2016 - 18:16 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:
Pro is a good late skill for a TPOMBer. Especially with Jump Up.
also great for dauntless
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 06, 2016 - 19:12 Reply with quote Back to top

JellyBelly wrote:
Can only be used to prevent the use of Strip Ball once per turn. Surprised

How often is strip ball used more than once per turn? One blitz is usually it. Not often the carrier will be standing next to another to be blocked.

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cakalis



Joined: Dec 10, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 06, 2016 - 19:57 Reply with quote Back to top

garyt1 wrote:
JellyBelly wrote:
Can only be used to prevent the use of Strip Ball once per turn. Surprised

How often is strip ball used more than once per turn? One blitz is usually it. Not often the carrier will be standing next to another to be blocked.
If sb is combined with frenzy then you have 2 sb on one blitz. I think that is the idea.
Antithesisoftime



Joined: Aug 20, 2014

Post   Posted: Nov 06, 2016 - 19:59 Reply with quote Back to top

cakalis wrote:
garyt1 wrote:
JellyBelly wrote:
Can only be used to prevent the use of Strip Ball once per turn. Surprised

How often is strip ball used more than once per turn? One blitz is usually it. Not often the carrier will be standing next to another to be blocked.
If sb is combined with frenzy then you have 2 sb on one blitz. I think that is the idea.
and, if you have good position on defense, chain pushes can net you more blocks.
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