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Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2016 - 23:30 Reply with quote Back to top

Just a couple of thoughts:


Even when you don't play in a league, there is still a lot of merit in following the team creation process rather than to use some premade team (which is going to be made by the same rules anyways).

If it helps check out this section:
https://fumbbl.com/help:LRB6RaceStrategy
Note human catcher cost has gone down by 10k with the latest rules.


Teams usually start with a million gold but something to make it more interesting in (non-progressive) tournaments is to use 1.1 - 1.2 million gold instead and to allow to buy a few additional extra skills or even inducements from that money.
But one step at a time I suppose.


The box set game, Orcs vs Humans is not particularly a well balanced one. But this may not matter in casual play at the beginning.


RR don't cost half at the beginning, they cost double in league play later. The value displayed on the rosters is the cost upon team creation. Team creation cost is also applied to a RR as TV even when bought later (not important for one off games).
Throweck



Joined: Feb 23, 2013

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2016 - 23:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Me again


THIS should be really helpful. Or even better...THIS

Smile
Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2016 - 23:48 Reply with quote Back to top

So I went and undusted my old LRB5 box and checked for the default rosters there.
At the top right corner of these cards two values were given: Training and Fan-Factor.

Training would be Re-Rolls, so humans have 4 RR and 4 FF on default.

Orcs have 3 RR and 6 FF on default.

Mind that I don't know if any alterations have been done in the new rules to account for lower catcher cost.
Dominik



Joined: Oct 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2016 - 23:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Wreckage wrote:

The box set game, Orcs vs Humans is not particularly a well balanced one. But this may not matter in casual play at the beginning.

It is recommended to play Orc vs Orc at the beginning to understand the differences of a two dice block versus a one dice block, dodging and so on.
In my opinion you are ready to play another race if you once understood how to succesfully assist for blocks and how to dodge twice out of tackle zones (which is to dodge from two into one tackle zone).
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2016 - 23:57 Reply with quote Back to top

1 - Olé!
2 - Pile on all mens!
3 - Happy Larry says yes!
4 - Never go full Polish.
5 - It's life Jim, but not as we know it.
6 - Kill all mens; go home happy.
7 - Only on Tuesdays, or in a month with a P in it,
8 - Blame Estonia!

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bdubgnarkill



Joined: Dec 02, 2016

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2016 - 06:08 Reply with quote Back to top

If you push a guy back, but he can't be pushed back because there are three guys behind him, what happens?

If you push a guy back to where the football is, what happens? Can he attempt a pickup immediately?

Can the ball be in the same space as a player, even if the player doesn't have the football?

Can the defending players (the opponent whose turn it isn't) use assist blocks? I guess what I am trying to say, can the defense stack up their assist blocks too to counter? Edit.... better way to say this. If my Orc Lineman blocks against a Himan Lineman, and a Blitzer is right next to him... is it a Str 3 vs Str 3? Or is it a Str 6 vs Str 3 in favor of the human defenders?
bdubgnarkill



Joined: Dec 02, 2016

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2016 - 06:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Here is a crazy one that just happened... I kicked off... on his turn, his thrower went to pick it up, it scattered back 3 times.... and out backwards out of the end zone? What happens there?!?
Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2016 - 07:04 Reply with quote Back to top

bdubgnarkill wrote:
If you push a guy back, but he can't be pushed back because there are three guys behind him, what happens?

It is called a chain-push. The player gets pushed into another player and the other player needs to be pushed just as if he had been blocked from that angle. The same can happen multiple times.
If a player with Stand Firm (use is optional) is within the chain, pushing into that player will stop the entire chain from the start and everyone will end up standing in their original square.

If a player stands next to 'out of bounds' area, the border of the board, this is not applicable. Instead the player gets pushed into the crowd (crowd-push). He must roll an injury roll. If the result is stun, he'll be put in the reserve box for the rest of the drive. Otherwise in the KO / CAS box rerspectively.

Via chain-push it is possible to generate an unnatural one turn score by pushing an unmoved player over the line of scrimmage(more about that in the help section) https://fumbbl.com/help:OTT - should give you a good grip of how chain-pushes work...

Quote:

If you push a guy back to where the football is, what happens? Can he attempt a pickup immediately?

He is not allowed to pick up. Instead use a d8 to let the ball bounce once. The player in the square where the ball bounces to may attempt to catch. Note that it is the catch roll for an inaccurate ball. For instance ag3 catch would be 4+. You may use the catch skill there, but not the Sure Hands skill.
Tacklezones apply.

It is not uncommon for the ball to scatter over multiple players with everyone failing free catch attempts.

In your own turn you are allowed to use Re-Rolls for such a catch but not in the opponent turn, but you can use Catch skill regardless.

Note that failed regular pick up and catch attempts will result in a turnover.
Just balls coincidentally bouncing into your square don't cause turnovers.

Note you are allowed to push players onto the ball regardless whether there are other free squares or not. It is a common tactic to get the ball out of a position were picking it up would be difficult due to too many tackle zones.

Quote:
Can the ball be in the same space as a player, even if the player doesn't have the football?
No, in a case like that always use the d8 to scatter the ball once until it ends up in an empty square or is caught by somebody.

Quote:
Can the defending players (the opponent whose turn it isn't) use assist blocks? I guess what I am trying to say, can the defense stack up their assist blocks too to counter?

Basically yes. But assist rules can be easily misunderstood. Most beginners get them wrong at first. There is a nice article about it. You can find it when you google 'The Art of Blocking'.

I recommend taking some time to really try to grasp it. There are basically three types of assist situation:
1. Active Team assisting players must stand next to the player being blocked.
2. Passive Team assisting players must stand next to the player executing the block.
3. Cancelling players must stand next to the assisting player.

Cancellation is often misunderstood by beginners as a method to somehow calculate assist strength in some complicated matter while it is in reality as simple as:
Any player that stands next to a player from the other team that is neither the blocking player nor the player being blocked has their assist cancelled. Players will also cancel each others assists and a single player could cancel any number of players assists around them.
Basically in terms of assits you completely ignore anyone inside a tacklezone. (Unless he has the Guard skill- which exactly allows a player to assist from within a crowd.)

I recommend to try a game on fumbbl or two, or to simply just try to spectate a game that somebody else is playing. I think you will see the things quickly with much more clarity.

Quote:
is it a Str 6 vs Str 3 in favor of the human defenders?

Assists always add +1 strength for defender/attacker, regardless of the assisting players actual strength.
If a strength 4 player would assist a strength 3 player, the strength 3 player would attack with strengh 4, not with strength 7 and not with strength 5 either.

As a result the attacking players action would be used but not the assisting players action.

A player may assist regardless of whether he has used up his action for the turn already. Basically a player assists merely by being where he is.
Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2016 - 07:24 Reply with quote Back to top

bdubgnarkill wrote:
Here is a crazy one that just happened... I kicked off... on his turn, his thrower went to pick it up, it scattered back 3 times.... and out backwards out of the end zone? What happens there?!?

First off, I need to emphasize again that a failed pick up causes a turnover. So if you try to pick up and roll something like 2,2 with an ag3 player, you scatter the ball, then it's the other coaches turn until he fails an action.

Second, if the ball gets out of bounds you should have a special template. It shows something like 1,2 to the left, 3-4 to the middle and 5-6 to the right.
So you roll a d6 determine direction from the spot it went out of bounds with the template.
Then you throw 2d and count the squares from where the ball got out in the direction the template is pointing at.
If a player stands in the target square he may attempt to catch the ball (inaccurate).
If no player is in the target square, roll a d8 to make it bounce from there once just like after a failed pass.

It can sometimes happen that the ball goes from an out of bounds position to a new out of bounds position (2d6 can cover a large distance).
If that happens do the throw in attempt again from the new square the ball went out of bounds.
bdubgnarkill



Joined: Dec 02, 2016

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2016 - 19:44 Reply with quote Back to top

@Wreckage, HUUUUUUGE help. I took the time to wrap my brain around blocking and I totally get it now! Thank you!
bdubgnarkill



Joined: Dec 02, 2016

Post   Posted: Feb 11, 2017 - 23:52 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm here at the local store playing Blood Bowls latest edition. I am using the advice that EVERYONE gave me for blocking... and I'm told it's wrong.

The advice was... recommend taking some time to really try to grasp it. There are basically three types of assist situation:
1. Active Team assisting players must stand next to the player being blocked.
2. Passive Team assisting players must stand next to the player executing the block.
3. Cancelling players must stand next to the assisting player.

I don't see this in the rule book tho, and the guy I'm playing is telling me I'm wrong.
bdubgnarkill



Joined: Dec 02, 2016

Post   Posted: Feb 11, 2017 - 23:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Where in the new rule book does it say this?
pokrjax



Joined: Dec 01, 2014

Post   Posted: Feb 12, 2017 - 00:15 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't hqve the new book but in crp/ lrb6 this comes under it's own section entitled 'assissting a block' after the kick off and weather tables.

Everything you're saying sounds correct so I hope you've sorted out the situation with your opponent Smile
zakatan



Joined: May 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Feb 12, 2017 - 00:43 Reply with quote Back to top

I suggest playing a game or two here on fumbbl. Since the rules are enforced you can't just mess up.

Otherwise, keep the rulebook close for when these doubts arise, since most (if not all) of them are solved somewhere in there. Although of course there will always be unclear rules, since GW wording tends to be confusing and this is a very complex game with lots of weird interactions.

Regarding your assisting problem, it looks to me you say it right. Anyway, getting used to calculating assists takes some time and can be a little complicated, specially in dense situations, with a lot of players and some "guards" in play.

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Xeterog



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 12, 2017 - 00:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Wreckage wrote:

Note that failed regular pick up and catch attempts will result in a turnover.
Just balls coincidentally bouncing into your square don't cause turnovers.


Almost, but not quite right (sorry-but this could be called a pet peeve of mine)

A failed catch attempt is never the sole cause of a turnover.

If you pass the ball and the intended target fails the catch roll, it is not a turnover UNLESS the ball ends up either on the ground or in the hands of an opponent.

The ball could scatter out of bounds, be thrown in by the crowd, hit the ground, bounce into someone, they fail the catch roll, it then bounces to someone on the Moving Team and if they catch it..no turnover.
(this is almost exactly the example given in the rules--which has been virtually unchanged since 3rd edition 1st came out way back in the 90's)

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