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Notgivingname



Joined: Dec 29, 2016

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 05:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Slaves: 0-16 40K 6/3/3/7 Animosity, Thrall G/SPA
Dwarf Longbeard Slaves: 0-2 50K 4/3/2/8 Animosity, Block, Thick Skull, Tackle, Thrall GS/PA
High Elf Slaves: 0-2 60K 6/3/4/7 Animosity, Thrall GA/SP
Black Ark Corsair: 0-2 70K Animosity 7/3/4/7 GA/SP
Dark Elf Blitzers: 0-2 100K 7/3/4/8 Block, Animosity GA/SP
Slave Master: 0-1 130K 7/3/4/8 Blood Lust*, Prehensile Tail, Tentacles, Stab, Leader, Animosity GA/SP

Rerolls: 70K

Apothocary: Yes

Necromancer: No

Bloodlust rewrite: Immediately after declaring an Action with a Slave Master, roll a d6: On a 2+ the Slave Master can carry out the Action as normal. However, on a 1, the Slave Master will torture a Thrall team-mate or a spectator. At the end of the declared Action, but before actually Passing, handing off, or scoring, the Slave Master must give into her desire to bring pain. Choose a Thrall to torture and make an Injury roll on the Thrall treating any casualty roll as Badly Hurt. Failure to bite a Thrall is a turnover and sets the slave master to find a victim in the crowd – move the Slave Master to the reserves box if she was still on the pitch.

Notes: You do not have to roll animosity between the different races of slaves.

Background: Dark Elves have long stood on the blood bowl pitch, trading in the brutality of battle for the depravity of the game. However, this sudden shift in the entire focus of Dark Elf society left the slavers in the dust. No one came to spend their coin in the slave markets, no one came to the docks to watch the prizes of war marched out of the ships, no one came to see the blood of captured Elves, Dwarves, and Men spilled in the name of Khaine. Instead, the Dark Elves gather around their crystal balls and watch the game all day long.

The slaves masters had time to ponder. Fighting to stop the game had failed, even they had to admit that things were probably better without a hundred wars constantly threatening annihilation. Instead, they realized, with the slaves they had now, they had the power to form teams of their own, and use the games as an excuse to capture any player they can get their hands on.

Rational: Slavery is a vital totem of Dark Elf society in the lore. Most of the Dark Elf economy is based on the buying and selling of slaves. If Hobgoblins slavers get their own team in secret League, then the Dark Elf Lore demands their brand of slavery gets a team as well.

The Slaves have animosity because they have been treated so horribly by their owners, while the dark elves have animosity because they naturally look down upon.

Dark Elf Blitzers are taken straight from the normal team. The slaves share the same stat-line and cost as the thralls from vampires. The Long Beards and High Elves are also lifted from their respective teams under. I "borrowed" the Dark Elf Corsair's from the secret League pirates team, as many slaves came from sea born raids.

Finally, we have the Slave Master. Stab, prehensile tail, and tentacles all represent the slave master bringing her implements of torture (namely whips and blades) right on the battlefield. She also has Leader because she is the slave MASTER after all.

Even a glance at the lore shows that dark elves often torture their slaves not even as a punishment but means to both keep the rest of the slaves inline and/or fill their sadistic pleasures. I have represented this by giving all the slaves thrall and the Slave Master Bloodlust. She isn't literally drinking their blood, but giving the unfortunate slave an extra dose of punishment on a whim. Without a slave in sight, she will go inflict her pain upon some unfortunate soul in the crowd instead.


Last edited by Notgivingname on Jan 25, 2017 - 21:44; edited 4 times in total
Stanley



Joined: Jan 01, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 08:36 Reply with quote Back to top

All with thrall yet only 1 player with bloodlust?
way too easy to keep team together

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Notgivingname



Joined: Dec 29, 2016

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 10:01 Reply with quote Back to top

Stanley wrote:
All with thrall yet only 1 player with bloodlust?
way too easy to keep team together


The thrall/blood lust on this team wasn't suppose to be a crippling hit like it is on Vampire teams. I was trying to fit the game mechanics to the lore in an interesting way.
Guardikai



Joined: Jun 23, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 11:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Looking really good. Very cool concept.

A couple suggestions: The dwarfs are slaves. They've lack their usual heavy armour and good equipment. Perhaps reflect that in AV8 instead of AV9 (also making the team more fragile, which is a valid weakness). This would also help justify their incredibly under-priced cost. A dwarf 4/3/2/9 blocker (with block/tackle/thick skull) is 70k. You have them here at 50k. Thrall and animosity are not -20k. Maybe -10k. AV8 and those two however and it is justified.

I'd apply the same logic to the high elf slaves - AV7 and keeping them at 60k (they're usually 70k).

The corsair is also under-costed - a dark elf linemen costs 70k with the same stats and 1 less MV. Animosity isn't worth 10k.

Blitzers are spot on.

Slave master is interesting, but is maybe doing too much at once. I can't quite see their niche, though I like them having blood lust. It'd work better if there could be more than one as otherwise the bloodlust can reliably be rerolled and have little team impact - making the thralls somewhat meaningless as a negative to the team (as they're unlikely to be bitten compared to a vampire team with 4-6 vamps!). They lack a focus making their 130k cost unnecessary - they don't bring more strength, speed or ball handling to the team. They bring a stab that's likely going to make them huge targets on top of their huge cost. The tentacles and prehensile tail are good for holding down enemy players, but not with just one and them being targeted like mad. Perhaps try something simpler?

Slave Master: 0-4 110K 6/3/4/8 Blood Lust*, Dodge, Prehensile Tail, Tentacles, Animosity GA/SP

Dodge - slave masters have to dodge the attacks of newly arrived slaves and some have experience handling wild animals, even hydra. That'd justify the dodge nicely Smile

I do think you've got too many options that would mean the slave masters aren't taken much. Perhaps removing the corsairs or blitzers would help?
wallenstein



Joined: Dec 20, 2012

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 11:51 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't understand why you got blitzers in the team, what's the rationale?
zakatan



Joined: May 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 12:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Team looks nice, maybe a bit too much on the strong roster side of things (at a first glance). I don't believe this kind of roster should be competitive, rather challenging to play with. Maybe add the suggestions from previous posters (drop AV from slaves), and get rid of blitzers (too many positionals already, and they don't seem to have a reason to be there) would bring them to the somewhat poor performance a bunch of mistreated and underfed slaves are expected to bring.

I understand that "You do not have to roll animosity between the different races of slaves" means that there are only two races regarding animosity: master/slave, regardless of the procedence of the slave.

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The_Wogans



Joined: Aug 11, 2015

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 13:08 Reply with quote Back to top

The prehensile tail and tentacles on the slave master seem a bit pointless- these are to stop people dodging away but seeing as the master is only ST3 most teams could just block him. These mutations work on big guys but not so much on normal strength players.
Guardikai



Joined: Jun 23, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 14:14 Reply with quote Back to top

Wogans is spot on - which is why I suggest access to more of these players and therefore making them cheaper. Giving them dodge helps them survive being hit and to move into position to use their skills to pin down opponents. Giving them tackle and block access means they have good development direction. Another option would be dauntless for facing up against higher strength teams. Sidestep might also be nice.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 14:36 Reply with quote Back to top

Notgivingname wrote:
a resurrected skeleton from a Treeman is just as strong a skeleton from a snotling.

Both Treeman and Snotling can't be resurrected.
Only players with Strength 4 or less that don't have Regeneration or Stunty can be resurrected.
Also, resurrected players turn into Zombies, not Skeletons.
zakatan



Joined: May 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 14:44 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Notgivingname wrote:
a resurrected skeleton from a Treeman is just as strong a skeleton from a snotling.

Both Treeman and Snotling can't be resurrected.
Only players with Strength 4 or less that don't have Regeneration or Stunty can be resurrected.
Also, resurrected players turn into Zombies, not Skeletons.


I was about to say that a couple of hours ago, but then I thought it'd look presumptous and outside the scope of the conversation.

And man it does.

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Guardikai



Joined: Jun 23, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 14:59 Reply with quote Back to top

A thought for the corsairs - maybe tackle and having them cost 90-100k? Tackle could represent them handling the slaves (tackling them to the ground) XD

Okay, looking at re-writing the list. Notgivingname: what do you think?

Human Slaves: 0-16 40K 6/3/3/7 Animosity, Thrall G/SPA
Dwarf Slaves: 0-2 50K 4/3/2/8 Animosity, Block, Thick Skull, Tackle, Thrall GS/PA
Elf Slaves: 0-2 60K 6/3/4/7 Animosity, Thrall PA/SG
Black Ark Corsairs: 0-2 80K 7/3/4/8 Animosity GA/SP
(OR 0-2 100k 7/3/4/8 Tackle, Guard or Nerves of Steel GA/SP - further separating them from elf slaves and giving them either an offensive or elfball niche. Tackle for fluff of tackling escaping slaves, guard for protecting the slave masters, nerves of steel for handling tough slave expedition gathering voyages and calmly obeying the orders of their slave master bosses)
Slave Masters: 0-4 110K 7/3/4/8 Blood Lust*, Dodge, Prehensile Tail, Tentacles, Animosity GAP/S

Rerolls: 70K

Apothocary: Yes

Necromancer: No - It doesn't make sense for them to kidnap, torture and enslave someone that is dead. He's dead Jim. If they want to enslave someone then use your winnings and buy them at the slave market - you're slave masters, not slave capturers. The slave capturing was given up to play BB Smile

Changes: Minus armour on the dwarves and high elves to justify their cost. Swapping high elf general access for passing - the dark elf slavemasters only choose the best high elf slaves for their teams; if they wanted normal linemen they'd use humans, and if they wanted elf blitzers then they'd use corsairs. Corsairs are 80k - dark elf linemen have the same stats and -1MV and cost 70k. Animosity isn't worth -MV. As it is they are still a little under-costed, but only having 2 helps justify this. Do note that a black arc corsair has armour 7, whereas yours has armour 8 and costs the same. Aside from that I've kept MV7 on the masters to make them really appealing as players, as well as expanding their skill access to passing so they can indeed pick up leader or handle the ball. There is some argument to say they should be 120-130k, but I'm not sure they bring as much to the team as a treeman brings to a wood elf team. Their bloodthirst is also a much larger liability with more of them and only 2 team mates they can't bite apart from themselves. In other words there will be some badly hurt human, elf and dwarf slaves by the end of a turn with this many. Comparing them to a vampire they have 1 less strength, which is big, but one more MV and an extra skill. Are Dodge, PH and Tentacles better than Regen and hypnotic gaze? Yes, but one strength is better than one MV. I therefore consider this fair. These are also the heart of the team so there should be an incentive to purchase them.

Sample team:
4 masters: 440k
2 corsairs: 160k
1 elf slave: 60k
2 dwarf slaves: 100k
2 human slaves: 80k
2 RRs: 140k
Balance: 20k left -> Could save, could convert a human slave into an elf slave with it, could switch the elf and a dwarf slave for an apothecary. Only way to start with 3 RRs or more would be to start without a corsair or slave master.

I think this captures the essence of the team you describe, especially from a fluff perspective. Escaping a slave master's tackle zones is no easy thing. Skilling them up to have tackle will make them a nightmare for agility or dodging teams! Elves, Amazons and Skaven beware...

For all the team's diversity they do have a few key weaknesses:
Best players are expensive.
Only two blocks to begin with, both with low movement, and possibly getting badly hurt by being tortured during a game. This makes their bash unreliable.
The lack of any strength 4 or higher, or starting guard or dauntless, means they are not a bashing team. They can hit harder than some elf teams, but dark elves would rightfully out-bash them.
Animosity can be a problem, as always. So can bloodthirst with 4 players you're likely taking and who are trying to get near or next to opponents.
They're quicker than average, but not super quick. MV 7 highest, so no one turn TDs without good trait ups. The high MV on the dark elves (and their agility 4) makes them more likely to score and get SPPs so they'll skill up first to be stars - as you'd expect on a team that's dark elves first!

The team strategy would be to tie dangerous opponents up with cheap linemen, use the slave masters to harass agile and weaker enemies or to help form cages or screens, the corsairs (and masters) for scoring and dwarves for initial blitz duties until you make a gap. Lastly an elf or two for backfield ball handling or last ditch final defence with some SPPs (side step and dodge, leap to get near a ball carrier). The elf slaves become more appealing, due to their lower cost, if the corsairs cost more. Access to leader can be justified as they become the unofficial leaders of the slave element of the team (as they'd probably best be able to communicate with and understand their dark elf masters).

How does this seem? ^^
zakatan



Joined: May 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 15:08 Reply with quote Back to top

I find elf slaves pointless with this setup, considering their lack of G access and that there are 6 other reliable proper av8 elves with G acces out there.

Also, 0-4 slave masters may be too many both fluff- and gameplay-wise. I'd rather go 0-4 corsairs and 0-2 masters if you want to keep it elf heavy, or just 0-2 both for a more slave packed roster.

I'd add a rule that prevents apo to heal any slave whatsoever.

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Guardikai



Joined: Jun 23, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 15:45 Reply with quote Back to top

The elf slaves do lack use, but they're *cheap* for agility 4. They also become more appealing when compared to their more expensive agility 4 team mates. They can still access G on doubles if you want lots of block, but they're not there for block. Passing access opens up options for the team too. If you just want G access then take human slaves. Others will like agility access and agility 4 more for a player or two.

Why are 0-4 too many fluff and gameplay wise? Vamp teams can have up to 6 players with BT. SL vamp teams have 0-4. So, it's definitely not too much gameplay wise. Fluff wise? You're talking about what dark elves do and a team devoted to this premise. There aren't lots of witch elves compared to ordinary dark elves, but they have their own team with just them. This is a dark elf *slavers* team. There should be a number of slave masters in just such a team as there are many vamps in a vamp team, many ogres in an ogre team, many witch elves in a witch elf team, etc. So, I disagree strongly there zakatan.

The rule suggestion is an interesting one. If it could be implemented it would be rather amusing! Oh... how about decay on all the slaves? (To represent their masters not caring about proper aftercare!)
zakatan



Joined: May 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 17:10 Reply with quote Back to top

Gameplay wise, having 4 blood-lust players that are your best players means that blood-lust dominates the game, which is against the design goals of the roster, as specifically stated by Notgivingname ("The thrall/blood lust on this team wasn't suppose to be a crippling hit like it is on Vampire teams. I was trying to fit the game mechanics to the lore in an interesting way.").

On the fluff side, my idea of slavery is few masters, many slaves. Making them 0-4 + 2 additional corsairs means that there are more players with whips than players to be whipped which, in my opinion, makes no sense. Following your reasoning, there should be no slaves in a *slaver* roster, anyway Wink

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Guardikai



Joined: Jun 23, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 18:26 Reply with quote Back to top

They're not as crippling as for vamps - you have more team member types (not just vamps and thralls) so you absolutely can play with less slave masters. Also, I'm suggesting a cap of 4, not 6.

I don't think your second paragraph makes any sense. At most it'd be 6 players who are dark elves - and you're likely to build a team with 12+ so half or more would be slaves. Additionally, the corsairs are more like guards than masters with whips. Exaggeration is no good Wink

It's a *dark elf* Slave*R* team, not a slaves team or a dark elf slaves team. Being able to take quite a few dark elves and quite a few slavers, as opposed to slaves only, just makes sense.

How about some comments on the proposed roster as opposed to the lore and numbers of each type of player breakdown? OP? Balanced? Interesting? Hate it? Like it? Unsure? Why?

^^ Thanks.
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