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mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 00:29 Reply with quote Back to top

I had a thought while mulling over the similarities between football and BB and a thought occured to me - one of the supremely limiting parts of passing to me at least is that it is separated into distinct player moves.

What if there were conjunction moves?

Example: Ball Carrier has the ball and declares a pass action. You can then declare a 'route' action with a secondary player who you may pass to with the ball carrier at any point during that secondary players' route action with all modifiers to the pass and catch applied.

I am currently indifferent as to whether the ball carrier gets to move before or after making this pass action to a route action player but to me, even allowing a stationary ball carrier to pass to a player in motion could provide a lot more intriguing elfball possibilities and add a bit more flexibility to an action that is kind of vanilla.
MonkeyMan576



Joined: Jul 02, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 00:33 Reply with quote Back to top

I think passing is only limiting to lower agility races, and I'm pretty sure that's the idea.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 00:44 Reply with quote Back to top

MonkeyMan576 wrote:
I think passing is only limiting to lower agility races, and I'm pretty sure that's the idea.


Even considering that, even with elf teams passing is a B or C grade option.
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 01:05 Reply with quote Back to top

Interesting idea .. the main scenario where I can imagine this coming into play would be allowing you to pass to a receiver who is in scoring range, just after they've dodged clear of tackle zones (making the pass range shorter). It might strengthen the elven teams a bit too much though - you could try to dodge a receiver clear and only pass to them if they successfully dodge free.

Another interesting idea that I've seen suggested before would be allowing a player with diving catch to move (without dodging) into the ball's target square before making the catch (can still move afterwards, if they haven't done so). It could make for some interesting plays and buff a skill that otherwise no-one uses.

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ArthurWynne



Joined: Sep 23, 2015

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 01:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, Diving Catch should work like Kick-Off Return/Pass Block for your own passes. Best way to implement some of this functionality without overcomplicating the rules or making it too good, while buffing an underpowered skill.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 01:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Jelly and Arthur, that sounds like an intriguing rejiggering of Diving Catch.
Zlefin



Joined: Apr 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 01:38 Reply with quote Back to top

such things would make it a bit easier, and perhaps enough to be worthwhile.
it seems a bit complicated for a rule, prone to causing people to mistake how much move they've done and such. it certainly would address the problem though wherein a pass to the end zone is a bit far to do reliably, but passing to the receiver before they move doesn't work well because they're always marked.
it feels like part of the issue is that it's not so much passing itself that's hard, as the use of passing plays is.
and the number of skills it takes to pull off passing plays reliably is rather high.
Uedder



Joined: Aug 03, 2010

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 01:50 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd pass twice a turn as it is, if only I could.

The major downside for passing game (with teams that can afford it of course) is that your catcher is either blitzable before the pass happens - and i try to avoid it as much as i can - or he's caged/screened. And at that point you might as well just run the ball right?

I only really dig a passing game with pro elves. Because Nos.
P.s.
And slowass linemen.

P.p.s.
And being constantly undermanned. Makes passing easier than running.
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 02:07 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
MonkeyMan576 wrote:
I think passing is only limiting to lower agility races, and I'm pretty sure that's the idea.


Even considering that, even with elf teams passing is a B or C grade option.


I agree that passing is a plan B or C. Thing is, there are times where you have to resort to that B or C option - e.g. down on players with elves. Also, situations where you only have 1 or 2 turns to score and the kick is deep in your backfield.

Passing happens .. Smile

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mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 03:14 Reply with quote Back to top

Part of why this is in house rules section. Wink

It'd be for a house ruled league featuring nothing but elves. If only the client allowed such a drastic rule change. I think it would really add something extra spicy to elfball action.

Looking at it from another perspective it could have really fun implications for the positioning game - get a KoR move with diving catch gets a player out of a TZ to catch the pass then use the catcher to set up an assist with new found movement.
keggiemckill



Joined: Oct 07, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 03:27 Reply with quote Back to top

I guess what you are suggesting is something similar to pass block, but for a receiver? After declaring a pass action and then moving the passer, you have a chance to move under the ball. Maybe more like Kick Off return.

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mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 03:46 Reply with quote Back to top

keggiemckill wrote:
I guess what you are suggesting is something similar to pass block, but for a receiver? After declaring a pass action and then moving the passer, you have a chance to move under the ball. Maybe more like Kick Off return.


Yeah, perhaps like pass block but to use on your turn - being in the line of the pass would allow a normal intercept roll with modifiers and/or allow diving catch to be used if adjacent to intended square of pass, if caught turn continues as normal, if not, turn ends. Defensive pass block moves would be made after offensive.

Yeah, Pass Block is way more in line with what I was thinking. Thanks for reminding me it exists.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 03:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Thinking about further implications, ottds would be a lot easier.

Thinking about even further implications pass block would be balls out on offense and almost a requirement of defense.

This might as well be a "lets rehab pass block" thread.
Craftnburn



Joined: Jul 29, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 04:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Why not just combine Diving Catch and Pass Block and rename it to something offense/defense neutral and let both sides's players use it before the pass is thrown.

Two weak skills become one cool one and it's even cooler because it works on both sides of the ball (like Dodge and Block do)!

(hmm perhaps I should have read the whole thread before responding.. well great minds think alike.. lol)
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 13:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Hey, that is a very cool idea about combining diving catch/pass block to make a better skill that people might actually take. Maybe call it Intercept Pass, or just Intercept?

I think you would have to say that it starts using up the players normal movement for the turn if used on offense, otherwise we'd be seeing 1-turn TDs all over the place.

About how to handle if both an offensive and defensive player have it on a pass - how about saying that both players move before any catch attempts, but allow the receiver to move first (as they are expecting the pass), then players get chances to intercept/catch in turn of who is closest to the thrower?

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Last edited by JellyBelly on Jan 25, 2017 - 13:25; edited 1 time in total
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