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Poll
How to beat skavens?
General strategies for your team works fine against skaven.
16%
 16%  [ 26 ]
Get rid of the runners and you'll be fine.
43%
 43%  [ 68 ]
Bash! Bash! Bash!
37%
 37%  [ 59 ]
Let me tell you something... ( see advice below )
3%
 3%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 158


Nicrolagh



Joined: Mar 21, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 18, 2004 - 02:25 Reply with quote Back to top

Having played quite a few games against those lovely little rats, I noticed I always have a hard time beating those. At low tr they always seem to outspeed me, at high tr ( that's when the claws kick in Wink ) they seem to also outbash quite easely.

After being defeated several times I tought the best way was to start a skaven team myself. sofar It gave me some insight about their strenght/weakness but I'm still not certain about a decent way to at least give them a hard time.

So maybe some enlightened coaches might give us some advise to get rid of this vermin Smile

What's the best way to score against them? What's the best way to defend against them?

fumbbleers! Lend us taste your wise advice! Shocked
DropDeadFred



Joined: Mar 05, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 18, 2004 - 02:27 Reply with quote Back to top

blitz the gutters with a tackle guy and foul them, without gutters they will have problems then jus break them down maybe foul the RO, problem solved

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Wombats



Joined: Oct 31, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 18, 2004 - 02:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Caging is worthwhile - Their speed means you can't look like you're going down one wing then quickly change.

Hoping to bust armour isn't a dependable tactic but when it works they lose their strength of being able to get assists anywhere.

At high TR get your Dirty Player into anything with Claws and the Runners.

Stall if you have no shame - Gives them a chance to die more and you won't see a two turn TD in response.

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LordSigmund



Joined: Jan 28, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 18, 2004 - 12:50 Reply with quote Back to top

yeah, send your meanest tackling blitzer after those gutters and then DP them into oblivion, same goes for wardancers and werewolves, they all deserve to die ... MWAHAHAHAHA *ahem*
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 18, 2004 - 12:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Poor, Little Rats... I love them... Why all that hate? Why???
Sad

Wink

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LordSigmund



Joined: Jan 28, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 18, 2004 - 12:58 Reply with quote Back to top

because gutter runners are just not right, theyre a menace to society and should be brought to justice
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 18, 2004 - 13:05 Reply with quote Back to top

They are innocent! It's bad company that drives them to the dark side!!! (Try to live a couple of years in a dungeon together with Assassins and Rat Ogres, then speak!!! Very Happy)

Jan_Mattys
Founder of the "LoveMice Society for Hated Gutter Runners"
Smile

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AFK_Eagle



Joined: Mar 12, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 18, 2004 - 13:50 Reply with quote Back to top

As the coach of two (moderately) successful skaven teams, I say the way to have more enjoyable success vs the rats is not to foul them to oblivion as is so commonly espoused. This leads merely to pissed off skaven coaches refusing to play you again. This may not bother some, but I've found the most enjoyable games come against repeat-coaches you've played before, not likely if you're fouling his boys repeatedly. (Rats don't take well to that.)

Instead, take their strength and use it against them. One of my favorite (and most effective) tactics is the reverse, seemingly dedicating all my guys to the right side of the pitch, then after the enemy moves to stop me from going forward, send my gutters screaming around to the other side. If playing bashers (orcs, undead) I'm usually fast enough they can't catch me. Even against other speed teams (elves) they'll only get one shot at my guy, which I can deny with careful placements of my supporting gutters. Then it's off to paydirt in rd 3.

So how to deny this? At kickoff, lineup your 3 strongest blockers on the LOS in the middle, then split your other guys out to each side. Force the skaven coach to either go past multiple dodges, or bust a whole through the middle and form a cage, something most skaven coaches aren't used to doing. Then you can pincer him from either side, denying the speed advantage.

On offense, caging drives skaven coaches nuts. (It does me...) Slow and steady down the pitch.

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Lorion



Joined: Feb 04, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 18, 2004 - 15:45 Reply with quote Back to top

If you are a bashy team then use the cage, and try to blitz (and perhaps foul) his claw guys. Try getting to hit him as much as possible. Unlike elves skaven have a hard time escaping when in a pinch. Blocking vs AV 7 players without blodge should able U to outnumber them, if you cant outnumber them, then you'll have a hard time regardless...
And of course you should stall as to make sure then cant make the 2 turn TD equalizer.

With a TD like Welfs and skaven then use your normsl tactic - gp for the 2 turn TD. He'll have a harder time doing this with AG3 throwers and gutters without catch. With Helfs and Delfs I prefer using the Cage also then burst out for a quick TD. That means move your thrower forward slowly in a cage while keeping some faster players ready to recieve the pass.

Oneturners should always get extra attention. Same goes for claw-players, but try to avoid the blocking trap that a Block, dodge side-step runner might make.

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Lorion



Joined: Feb 04, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 18, 2004 - 15:51 Reply with quote Back to top

For some reason I could not edit my post. Just read this one instead Smile

If you are a bashy team then use the cage, and try to blitz (and perhaps foul) his claw guys. Try getting to hit him as much as possible. Unlike elves skaven have a hard time escaping when in a pinch. Blocking vs AV 7 players without blodge should able U to outnumber them, if you cant outnumber them, then you'll have a hard time regardless...
And of course you should stall as to make sure then cant make the 2 turn TD equalizer.

With a TD-team like Welfs and skaven you should use your normsl tactic - go for the 2 turn TD. He'll have a harder time doing this with AG3 throwers and gutters without catch. With Helfs and Delfs I prefer using the Cage also, then burst out for a quick TD. That means move your thrower forward slowly in a cage while keeping some faster players ready to recieve the pass. He cant cover all your players, and youll in fact have a dodging cage, likely to have a sure-hands ball-carrier to avoid strip ball.

Oneturners should always get extra attention. Same goes for claw-players, but try to avoid the blocking trap that a Block, dodge side-step runner might create.

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Nicrolagh



Joined: Mar 21, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 18, 2004 - 17:54 Reply with quote Back to top

tnx for the answers, gonna try and put it into practice now.
Glomp



Joined: Jan 04, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 18, 2004 - 18:35 Reply with quote Back to top

Why are skaven so tough? Just take a woody team!

Your linemen will be the same stats except they have +1AG and can all take ag skills
your blitzers? Hahahah +Ma +AG -AV (so what?) + Dodge and Leap he he Mr. Green
your catchers? same but come with catch (always nice not to waste those re-rolls)
your thrower? trading off surehands for +AG and ag skill access is fine by me
your big guy? heh who wants a stinking WA ratogre (worst of negaitve skills) when you can have a treeman! Personally i know which one scares me more!

The only possible reason to take skaven is the avaliability of mutations and the fact you dont care too much if the little pishers die (cheap). Woodies are about 1000 times better and genrally speaking completely outclass skaven at all levels of team rating.

So your woodies die and are expensive, so what? its not like injuries stop woodies from losing games i've been doing them for years and even if your in a league where everyone fouls you still have a terrifying team. If it wasnt for aging youd never lose!

If you dont fancy that just stamp on the gutter runners (remembering obviously to get plenty of block,tackle, strip ball and possibly MB in your team. Gutter runners are the only thing skaven have going for them andkilling the little ba*****s will usually ensure you victory.

Skaven suck and always will just remember where the soft bits are! Twisted Evil

Laughing

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Last edited by Glomp on Sep 16, 2004 - 03:52; edited 3 times in total
Zy-Nox



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 18, 2004 - 18:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Boot > face works fine. Wether you block or foul its the same just get em off.

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Kou



Joined: Jun 04, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 18, 2004 - 18:45 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not a fouler myself but If I get the chance to foul the Gutter Runners I do.
Zy-Nox



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 18, 2004 - 23:10 Reply with quote Back to top

simple.
Ihave developed a 3 step plan of action when playing bb now.
1. Get stuck in
2.Put them down
3. Kick their teeth out
Remember you should be fouling his key players, not just runners.......

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