Duodora
Joined: Feb 25, 2017
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 Posted:
Jun 13, 2017 - 01:24 |
 
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Hi all,
I'm relatively new to Blood Bowl (and brand new to Dark Elves - been playing 'Zons), and am entering a tournament at the end of August. It's a resurrection style tournament with a TV of 1100. Teams start with six normal skills (or 4 normal plus 1 doubles skill, or 2 and 2).
I just ordered my minis - but now need to put together my team (and decide on skills!). Input definitely welcome.
I'm thinking:
2 Witch Elves, 4 Blitzers, 1 Runner (?), 4 linemen, two rerolls (1080 TV).
In terms of skills - assuming I don't want to be a total troll and take two Assassins with multiple block - I was planning to give all four blitzers dodge, then given the witch elves wrestle or block.
Does this lineup make sense? Would you guys recommend wrestle or block with the witch elves?
[Going into a game without a sub or Apo makes me nervous, but I'm not sure that there's enough money for either!]
Thanks! |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Jun 13, 2017 - 01:44 |
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No, that is a good plan. The strength of the Dark Elf line up is you can Blodge so many players in a TT tournament that allows 4-6 normal skills.
Now
IF this tournament allows you to take two doubles....Oh, hell yeah, you troll the assassin and take both of them with Multi block and troll all day long and laugh your way to victory. |
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ArthurWynne
Joined: Sep 23, 2015
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Jun 13, 2017 - 02:50 |
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NB: While Dark Elves are probably my favorite team, I am hardly an expert coach. But with that said, I would honestly advise the following build instead:
Witch Elf x1
Blitzer x4
Line elf x 7
Reroll x2
110 000 on the dot.
This minimizes the amount of AV 7 on the pitch and also allows you the option to foul if you really need to, meaning there's less chance of you getting outnumbered. Getting short-handed is really the worst danger for low-TV dark elves in my experience, with equal numbers they are a very strong team. Having two Witch Elves is nice, but it's a luxury in my opinion - the 12th man is more important. And given that it's a resurrection tournament, an apothecary is less important than it would otherwise be - it's not too bad that you can't afford it.
Before I get into skills I have a question: Can you stack multiple skills on the same player?
If yes, I would suggest Wrestle on the witch elf, Dodge on all the blitzers, and then either:
- Tackle on the Witch (making a great sacker)
- Tackle on a Blitzer (more of a value blitzer)
- Sure hands on a Blitzer (ball carrier, protects against Strip Ball if you expect to see that).
Which is better depends on play style and meta.
If no, I would still say Wrestle on the witch elf and Dodge on three of the blitzers are obvious choices, but then there are a few more options for the last two skills.
- You could either take Tackle on one of the Blitzers to hunt opposing Dodge players, or give all four blitzers Dodge.
- For your one skilled lineman, you could simply take Block/Dodge/Wrestle (I prefer Wrestle), but you could also take:
- a dirty player if you expect fouling to be a good idea
- a sure hands player to retrieve the ball without wasting rerolls - often a good idea in my experience since the player who retrieves the ball on a dark elf offense is unlikely to be the same one who carries it into the end zone. He also helps you pick up loose balls and save your rerolls for elfing.
Good luck! |
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Duodora
Joined: Feb 25, 2017
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Jun 13, 2017 - 06:25 |
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Thanks for the input! I was wondering about having a sub/whether it would be worth it (I should note that in ths tourney, apos always work. That said, on balance I think a sub makes more sense...?)
No stacking of skills - one per player. Taking two doubles rolls is an option, but I'd prefer not to go that double assassin/multiple block route  . I have no doubt it's strong though, haha.
Glad to hear the support for wrestle! It's felt really strong on the Amazons, but I wasn't sure if it was actually better!
I'll try to play a couple demo games with the different lineups!
Thanks  |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Jun 13, 2017 - 07:50 |
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For me: 3 Blitzers, 2 Witches, Runner, Linos to 11. 2 RR, Apo. Apos are better than subs anyway, but if they 'always work'? No brainer.
Dodge x 2 and a Guard on the Blitzers, Leader Runner and a Wrestle Witch. Dodge is more important than Tackle on the Blitzers. You could even go all three Dodge, Leader Runner, Block / Wrestle Witches.
You can go with some variety of 2 RR, but it's boom or bust. The above is a more consistent roster. Good luck! |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Jun 13, 2017 - 08:36 |
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1 witch 110 with wrestle
3 blitzers 300 with dodge
7 lino 490 with guard
3 rerolls 150
apo 50 |
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Naama
Joined: Jun 12, 2004
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Jun 13, 2017 - 10:43 |
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Yeah i wouldn't go all-in on dodge. Once you run into dwarves, you pretty much play with 4 less skills. I'd try to go for a more balanced team. But then again, im just an average coach 
I've been running in my mind a DE team i'd like to try in a casual tournament for lulz. 2-3 mighty blows, 1-2 guards, dp and maybe dodge/sure hands Might even work, who knows |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Jun 13, 2017 - 11:12 |
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Dwarfs aren't enough of a worry to cater for specifically. You have to think about the whole range of potential opponents, and mobility is key as an overall DE strategy. Dwarfs are also only going to be fielding five or six Tacklers; if you're on top of your placement of Dodge, you'll get value from it. It's rare you see a tournament that gives you so many doubles, so I've no idea how the mass MB / Guard would go. I suspect not super well.
I'm all for showing a little conservatism and running a consistently good roster rather than going boom / bust. The 3 Blitzer / 2 Witch / Leader roster is in fashion with most of the better English / European coaches on the circuit and it's the most common list you'll see at the most competitive and high level tournaments. There are a handful of notable great coaches that favour taking the 2 RR gamble and they register some good results. But there are also times where it trips them up. Only running one Witch and dropping the Runner for a third RR is too far the other way; too conservative. Dropping to four of Blitzers / Witches is rough; they are your match winners. DE are one of the best anti-Woodie rosters, and the Runner is a reasonably important part of that. You can look after more than one AV7 player easily enough, they aren't liabilities. The current 'standard' is a happy medium of getting big resources on the field and reliability, and I think it's standard for good reason.
Anyway. Enough from me. Have fun!
(Edited a bad sentence) |
Last edited by Purplegoo on %b %13, %2017 - %11:%Jun; edited 2 times in total |
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Naama
Joined: Jun 12, 2004
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Jun 13, 2017 - 11:34 |
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| Purplegoo wrote: | Dwarfs aren't enough of a worry to cater for specifically. You have to think about the whole range of potential opponents, and mobility is key as an overall DE strategy. Dwarfs are also only going to be fielding five or six Tacklers; if you're on top of your placement of Dodge, you'll get value from it. It's rare you see a tournament that gives you so many doubles, so I've no idea how the mass MB / Guard would go. I suspect not super well.
I'm all for showing a little conservatism and running a consistently good roster rather than going boom / bust. The 3 Blitzer / 2 Witch / Leader roster is in fashion with the better English / European coaches on the circuit and it's the most common list you'll see at the most competitive and high level tournaments. There are a couple of notable great coaches that favour taking the 2 RR gamble and they register some good results. But there are also times where it trips them up. Only running one Witch and dropping the Runner for a third RR is too far the other way. At the TV we're talking about, positionals are important, especially your superstars (Witches, in this case). DE are one of the best anti-Woodie rosters, and the Runner is a reasonably important part of that. You can look after more than one AV7 player easily enough, they aren't liabilities. The current 'standard' is a happy medium of getting big resources on the field and reliability, and I think it's standard for good reason.
Anyway. Enough from me. Have fun! |
Ooooh... MB was a double on dark elves? Nevermind then Been ages since i played them last time. LRB4 to be exact.
I play bashyteams so much, i always think of mblow as a normal skill roll |
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VSwift01
Joined: Sep 28, 2016
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Jun 13, 2017 - 11:59 |
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4 Blizters 400k
1 Witch 110k
7 Lineman 490k
2 Rerolls 100k
1100k
3 Blitzer Dodge
1 Blitzer Tackle
1 Lineman Kick
1 Witch Wrestle
or
1 Lineman Dirty Player |
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Duodora
Joined: Feb 25, 2017
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Jun 13, 2017 - 14:00 |
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| Purplegoo wrote: | | I'm all for showing a little conservatism and running a consistently good roster rather than going boom / bust. The 3 Blitzer / 2 Witch / Leader roster is in fashion with most of the better English / European coaches on the circuit and it's the most common list you'll see at the most competitive and high level tournamental. |
Ok!
This makes a lot of sense to me. Just for clarification, this would be:
2 witches (both with block/wrestle)
3 blitzers (with dodge)
1 runner (with leader)
5 linesmen
2 re-rolls
Apo?
Any thoughts on block vs wrestle for the witches?
Thanks! All the input is much appreciated |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Jun 13, 2017 - 14:14 |
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If you went with the six normal skills package, yes. One Block, one Wrestle Witch, for me. |
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kummo
Joined: Mar 29, 2016
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Jun 13, 2017 - 14:38 |
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| Purplegoo wrote: | | If you went with the six normal skills package, yes. One Block, one Wrestle Witch, for me. |
same here if one goes with 2 witches (and 3 blitzers)
(i could see 1 witch and 4 blitzers quite equally good tho)
I'd also have at least 1 tackle on one blitzer, sure he is targeted and dodge players avoid him.. but since you know he is target/avoided you can control opponents play a bit
and against skaven, undead, necro, humies, amazon, stunty races, UW, any elf team... it is quite useful |
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Composer99
Joined: May 18, 2006
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Jun 13, 2017 - 15:17 |
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An assassin with multiblock is 120K TV; IMO a witch is far more important to the DE game plan, so you're getting better value for, say, a 130K TV witch with block or wrestle than you are with an assassin with multiblock (or any skill, for that matter).
An assassin is probably a nice indulgence for a higher TV team, but at TV 1100 you still need to concentrate on your bread-and-butter players - again, IMO.
If you want bench and a dirty player, go with a 12-player roster and give a lineelf DP. Otherwise go with the 3 blitzer/2 witch/1 runner lineup suggested by Purplegoo.
Giving up four normal skills for two doubles skills seems like too much to me; giving up two for one doubles skill seems more reasonable, although six normal skills strikes me as the best choice.
If you go for a doubles skill, guard is probably better, but if you think you're likely to face fewer bashy teams, mighty blow would be good. (Especially on a witch if you prioritise skilling her up so she gets block.)
I won't pretend to be an exceptional coach, so feel free to take my advice with a grain of salt. |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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Jun 13, 2017 - 16:01 |
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Apo over 12th man, for only 50k you can sub one of your 100k positionals. Use it on BH, don't forget it's a resurrection tourament, so dead players will be back up and healthy next game anyway.
The Runner doesn't add much value to the team, you can happily ignore him.
Don't foul unless you get the ref. Fouling isn't a great strategy on DE in general.
Blodge is the most powerful skill combo in the game, so you should abuse it since you have 4 to 6 candidates to take it. Maybe wrestle on the witch, but i'm not too sold on that. Guard is also great value on a double. |
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