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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 31, 2017 - 02:31 Reply with quote Back to top

paradocks wrote:
It's a little sad that some ogre teams were ruined by the PO to Jugs changeover, instead of letting them play out the rest of their careers Crying or Very sad

My team is one of those:

https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=774716

5 Juggernaut skills, given the choice I would have taken Break Tackle over Juggernaut.

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keggiemckill



Joined: Oct 07, 2004

Post   Posted: Jul 31, 2017 - 03:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
the new rules 'Blood Bowl 2016 edition' removed Piling On, the new rule book states that it can be kept as an optional rule if you wish however the skill is now changed so that you have to use a team RR if you want to Pile On.


Im surprised how much I like this Optional rule change. Using a RR, is something that detours you from using it. It works really well, in my opinion.

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Mossbeard



Joined: Jul 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2017 - 15:00 Reply with quote Back to top

I thought PO would stay for Stunty Leeg, there are teams out there with lots of it still and my teams can't compete. Now you have to do a careful comparison to make sure your team won't get utterly dominated, no more Stunty Leeg for me.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2017 - 15:10 Reply with quote Back to top

come on, no need to be quite so dramatic, there is always a transition period when rule sets change. Once it beds in I'm sure your teams will be fine. They had no PO when LRB4 was played in that division and stunty LEeg was in fine form then Smile

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mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2017 - 15:16
FUMBBL Staff
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MattDakka wrote:
My team is one of those:

https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=774716

5 Juggernaut skills, given the choice I would have taken Break Tackle over Juggernaut.


Change the team name to Juggernauts and make it a theme Razz

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2017 - 15:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Mossbeard wrote:
I thought PO would stay for Stunty Leeg, there are teams out there with lots of it still and my teams can't compete. Now you have to do a careful comparison to make sure your team won't get utterly dominated, no more Stunty Leeg for me.

You can easily check on Gamefinder how many Piling On skills your opponents' teams have and refuse the offers you think are unfair.
Over time the Piling On players will decrease.

mister__joshua wrote:


Change the team name to Juggernauts and make it a theme Razz

Juggernaut is suboptimal, I will slowly replace them.

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Mori-mori-mori



Joined: Dec 28, 2014

Post   Posted: Aug 28, 2017 - 05:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Are you serious? Why removing PO completely? Making it spend TRR is more than enough already. Yes, it's now optional by new rules, but half of rules in BB are optional, including things like block assists and fouling. Why remove a good, interesting skill, instead of just limiting it with TRRs, as was intended by BB2016/DZ?
thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 28, 2017 - 07:41 Reply with quote Back to top

Did someone say Piling On?

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kummo



Joined: Mar 29, 2016

Post   Posted: Aug 28, 2017 - 10:21 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
the new rules 'Blood Bowl 2016 edition' removed Piling On, the new rule book states that it can be kept as an optional rule if you wish however the skill is now changed so that you have to use a team RR if you want to Pile On.

Any grandfathered teams out side of the main divisions keep the skill but to use it they should have to use a RR. It is not possible to select the skill any more though, so it will die out soon enough.


Not complete removal or force to use rr. CUSTOM leagues might still have same piling on as crp had (leagues like DLE still have it)
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 28, 2017 - 13:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Mori-mori-mori wrote:
Why remove a good, interesting skill, instead of just limiting it with TRRs, as was intended by BB2016/DZ?

Good, interesting skill?
If you like to turn a tactical game into a casualty rolling contest yes, it's a good and interesting skill.
Laughing
And by the way, teams with Piling On would simply buy more TRRs, so it would not be such a great limitation, especially considering you can use Piling On after you checked the Armour roll.

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Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 28, 2017 - 13:51
FUMBBL Staff
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Mori-mori-mori wrote:
instead of just limiting it with TRRs, as was intended by BB2016/DZ?


As was inteded? Really? I think this passage from Death Zone Season 1 is very very clear:

DZS1 wrote:
This skill can be found in previous editions of Blood Bowl, but has been removed from this edition


Does that sound like they intended it to be in the game but changed?
Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 28, 2017 - 13:57
FUMBBL Staff
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... That being said, the Stunty division is borderline dead with less than 10 matches played per day. As a direct consequence of it not having much interest from the coaches, the attention it gets from the staff (including me) is minimal. The Secret League project probably has more matches per day than Stunty at this point.

Without more interest in the division, I don't see much of anything happening with Stunty to be honest. To a point where I'm considering converting it into a L division league using the ruleset functions of the site.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 28, 2017 - 14:08 Reply with quote Back to top

About divisions: cross compatibility between teams in L division and SL division would be nice.
When I'm looking for SL games on GF I often see L teams (sometimes challenging my SL teams), the compatibility would increase the chance of finding a game.

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Mori-mori-mori



Joined: Dec 28, 2014

Post   Posted: Aug 28, 2017 - 14:25 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Mori-mori-mori wrote:
Why remove a good, interesting skill, instead of just limiting it with TRRs, as was intended by BB2016/DZ?

Good, interesting skill?
If you like to turn a tactical game into a casualty rolling contest yes, it's a good and interesting skill.
Laughing
And by the way, teams with Piling On would simply buy more TRRs, so it would not be such a great limitation, especially considering you can use Piling On after you checked the Armour roll.


Yes, it is. It gives you another hard choice: spend TRR for armor/injury rerolling, or save it for possible bad rolls further in this turn. Hard choices is always good addition to mechanics.

No, even with more TRRs it doesn't "simply" get you back the skill. First, TRRs add enormously to your team's TV, what means 300-500k more inducements. And even for such price it will be nowhere close to what it was before. You still will need TRRs for stuff you need them anyway (rerolling handoffs, pickups, gfis, blocks failed too early etc), 3-4 of them per half. So you can spend only extra TRRs for reroling armor/injury, that will be another 3-4. It's, like, 3-10 times less usage of PO in matches after DZ2.

I can't see clearly in rules whether or not PO uses TRRs in the same way other things do (i.e. that it can use only one of them per turn, and if you used it, you can't reroll anything else with TRRs anymore this turn), so I'm assuming it does. Then it's not anymore an OP skill killing all your team, but an interesting situational option, that comes with a huge price (bloated TV, both by more TRRs and having a skill on 2-4 of your players (not all of them as it was before in some killing teams, now it doesn't worth it) you can use only from time to time).
Mori-mori-mori



Joined: Dec 28, 2014

Post   Posted: Aug 28, 2017 - 14:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Christer wrote:
Mori-mori-mori wrote:
instead of just limiting it with TRRs, as was intended by BB2016/DZ?


As was inteded? Really? I think this passage from Death Zone Season 1 is very very clear:

DZS1 wrote:
This skill can be found in previous editions of Blood Bowl, but has been removed from this edition


Does that sound like they intended it to be in the game but changed?


It sounds like usual way they handle rules updates. Change something, playtest, rethink, analyse feedback, react to gathered data. But in this case it looks more like they were not prepared to give their opinion on this one, as it was a hot subject last years, so they took a break and postponed it to DZ2. And in DZ2 we have this:

Quote:
PILINGON(STRENGTH)
The player may use this skill after they have made a
block as part of a Block or Blitz Action, but only if they
are currently standing adjacent to the victim and the
victim was Knocked Down. Youcan use a team re-roll to
re-roll the Armour roll or Injury roll. Then the Piling On
player is Placed Prone in their own square – no Armour
roll is made for them, and this does not cause a turnover
unless the Piling On player is carrying the ball. Piling
On cannot be used with the Stab or Chainsaw skills. If a
player with the Loner skill wishes to use Piling On, roll a
D6. On a 1-3, the team re-roll is spent, but they remain
standing and cannot re-roll the Armour or Injury roll.
As per page 29 of Death Zone Season One!, the inclusion of
this skill in leagues and tournaments is optional.


How clear is it to you, now? Yes, it's optional, but, like I said, block assists are also optional, let's remove them too, right? They overpower bash teams as hell, you know.
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