The_Pink_Dodo
Joined: Mar 17, 2017
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Jul 31, 2017 - 21:13 |
 
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I have a tabletop game coming this week with my lizardmen vs dark elves, they are both developed teams but I have never faced dark elves before and to be honest i have no idea how to beat them. |
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Bazakastine
Joined: Mar 21, 2014
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Jul 31, 2017 - 21:29 |
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What do both teams look like skill wise? |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jul 31, 2017 - 21:41 |
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protect your ball carrier carefully. that's the best advice you can be given. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Jul 31, 2017 - 21:47 |
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| Garion wrote: | | protect your ball carrier carefully. that's the best advice you can be given. |
This should go without saying, but you do have to recognize the flexibility certain elf teams have in how they can get to the ball carrier, cage or no...
Still, a lot of 'how to beat DE' depends on their build (mostly how much blodge do they have) and your build (mostly how much tackle do you have).
Also, depending on your skink builds, practice setting up and executing one turn TDs. But beware, depending on the DE build, if they have their own one turner. |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Aug 03, 2017 - 03:45 |
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Do they have a leaper? Does your skink carrier have sure hands? That will be important. Yes stopping them getting at your carrier with support to pick up is key. They won't be as good at this as Wood Elves at least. But you can beat them into the ground with saurii. Especially if you have some tackle and mighty blow. Probably worthwhile marking up their players with Krox and Saurii too, particularly on defence.
Try not to leave skinks to get blitzed regularly, especially if the Elves have tackle, as otherwise you won't get your player number advantage |
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delusional
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
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Aug 03, 2017 - 08:22 |
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DE's have awesome skill advantage and the ability to uncage cages.
You have an awesome strength and movement advantage.
Use your skinks in pairs, so they hopefully don't get out muscled. Tackle is your enemy, target all tackle players with your Sauri and do your best to keep them out of the game.
The key bit is, you can go where the ball is. However they can easily take the ball and pass it away. Till you can surround the ball, you can't control it. So keep your skinks ready to defend until you can get 2 maybe 3 around the ball area. Just remember that the Delf movement isn't great. If they try to move close to the try line, Pound them and get into a better position.
Trying to think what's special about Delf... Pretty much that any player can potentially reach your skinks. Make it hard for them and get ready to counter pound any player that does. |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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Aug 03, 2017 - 12:30 |
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DE are the good version of humans. As humans are mediocre at everything, DE are good at everything: Decent speed, good ball handling, strong starting skills, decent sturdiness with AV8 Block/Doge, and AG4 all over the place. On the bright side, they aren't particularly excellent at anything and have expensive players.
DE preferred playstyle is the run/bash offence and positional defense.
Since DE have no glaring weaknesses you need to focus on your strengths: superior speed and strenght. It is hard for you to outmanouver them, but you can outrun and outbash them.
Also, as usual when playing Lizards, protect your skinks, prevent them to take free hits and keep their tackle/mb as far away as possible. |
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The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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Aug 03, 2017 - 12:43 |
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Kick to them.
Apply pressure when on defense by moving Block Sauri into based to base with non-block DE. Your goal is to suck out re-rolls as they dodge away, or waste the movement of 3 players as they try to 2d block you off.
Let them score. Apply pressure and get them to score as quickly as possible. Be ready to score as fast as possible after they score. Until they do score.. blitz the lowest AV target you can with your Mighty Blow Sarus. If you reduce his numbers, you can pressure him to score faster.
Keep your skinks well away from harm on defense, ready to act only if he runs for it, or does something stupid.
If your Krox is touching someone, leave him. If he is not touching someone, move his tail into base to base with 2 enemy elves. Tie the enemy up.
On offense.. keep moving slowly towards the goal line while risking nothing. Your skink will need to run for it sooner or later. Smash safely until you are close enough to run for it. Consider scoring turn 6 or 7, instead of waiting for the elves to surround you. You might have a better chance of preventing a 3 turn elf score, than of getting a skink a TD after the Side-Step gang swaRM YOUR CAGE.
tl/dr.. Hurt elves, Protect skinks. |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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My advice is that not all advice is equal.
Personally I..
Woudlnt expect my Krox to be much use, the tail is a pretty terrible anti elf weapon.
Expect anything without BT to be tied down by a rookie DE.
Be very careful with my BT/MB/tackle Saurus(Sauri), if you dont have at least one your team is not developed, but developing.
Hunt in packs as the skinks: at least 2, if not 3, make a pack, one should have DT.
NEVER leave the ball on the ground. Vs Elves there are balls in your hands, and elf balls. Nothing else.
Hope they are like the 86% (made up) of DE players that over prioritise their witch elves. Sometimes letting a skink or rookie saurus be surfed, to show how clever they are, can create the opening elsewhere you need.
Don't worry so much about hitting the key elves early in the game (though never pass it up), they will come to you in time. Just hit stuff a LOT and try to get numbers up.
Of course recieve if given the chance and carefully hit them to bugger while rolling into range for a skink. Unless they have leap.
Beware the blitz and deep kick. the first two turns are vital and expect the elves to come for ball, dont set too agressive, have 3-4 for ball fetching including at least one Scary MOFO. |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Aug 03, 2017 - 15:53 |
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Some advice is more equal than others. |
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The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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Aug 04, 2017 - 10:26 |
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@The_Pink_Dodo
Be sure to tell us how you did! What happened?
@PurpleChest
Given the limited information listed, I think we had to make some assumptions. Can you spare us just two or 3 more sentences of wisdom to explain the reasons you state the following as if it were a no-brainer?
"Of course recieve if given the chance.." |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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Aug 04, 2017 - 10:36 |
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| The_Murker wrote: | @PurpleChest
Given the limited information listed, I think we had to make some assumptions. Can you spare us just two or 3 more sentences of wisdom to explain the reasons you state the following as if it were a no-brainer?
"Of course recieve if given the chance.." |
Recieving when winning the coin toss is just the usual thing to do. Only a few rosters with very high ball-stealing capabilities will decide to kick first. As a general rule, the team having the ball has priority setting the tempo of the game.
In a Lizard vs Delves match-up you want to hit'em hard and good, and those 4 or 5 starting blocks are crucial to get the positional advantage to do that.
Hopefuly, by the time they recieve you have numbers and score advantage  |
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Naama
Joined: Jun 12, 2004
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Aug 04, 2017 - 11:01 |
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| zakatan wrote: | | The_Murker wrote: | @PurpleChest
Given the limited information listed, I think we had to make some assumptions. Can you spare us just two or 3 more sentences of wisdom to explain the reasons you state the following as if it were a no-brainer?
"Of course recieve if given the chance.." |
Recieving when winning the coin toss is just the usual thing to do. Only a few rosters with very high ball-stealing capabilities will decide to kick first. As a general rule, the team having the ball has priority setting the tempo of the game.
In a Lizard vs Delves match-up you want to hit'em hard and good, and those 4 or 5 starting blocks are crucial to get the positional advantage to do that.
Hopefuly, by the time they recieve you have numbers and score advantage |
I dunno... I usually like to kick when given The chance, especially on bashy matchups. The opponent usually Fields his best players, and having The Ball means he'll have a few players less to brawl with, especially If he wants to protect the ball. That gives a good opportunity to put his best players under the dirt, and get a easier receive later on :0
But then again im a filthy casual, and i'd rather win by removing players off the Field, than skillfull ball shenanigans. Maybe that's why i tend to draw a lot  Also compensating skill with luck plays a vital part.
Anyway... Get lucky, kill those who oppose you. Sometimes works!
There, a lot of text, nothing contributed \o/ |
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The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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Aug 04, 2017 - 11:18 |
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"Recieving when winning the coin toss is just the usual thing to do. "
With respect, it WAS my usual thing to do. Now I think much more carefully about the match-up before me, and my game-plan. With the assumptions I made on the above scenario, I kick. As a general rule, it is immediately 11 vs. 10 in your favor when you kick and want the opposition to score.
Hence my questioning PC's assumptions. |
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OenarLod
Joined: Jan 26, 2011
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Aug 04, 2017 - 11:45 |
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| zakatan wrote: | | The_Murker wrote: | @PurpleChest
Given the limited information listed, I think we had to make some assumptions. Can you spare us just two or 3 more sentences of wisdom to explain the reasons you state the following as if it were a no-brainer?
"Of course recieve if given the chance.." |
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Actually, what I do is:
"Of course kick if given the chance"
But my experience is limited to humans only... 
I believe that in any mismatch (bash vs ball), especially now after the removal of piling-on, there is plenty of interest in kicking.
If you are the agile side, you want to be sure to defend with full numbers, and try to go with a defensive score. Scoring on offense is not so difficult with agile even when low in numbers, more so if you are able to keep safe on the bench offensive focused players (like catchers).
If you are the bash side, it's easier to focus on player removal while defending, and you may even force a fast score. And to move the OTT at the end of the match (instead of the end of first half), when player removal should be more effective to prevent the opponent to have enough players to do so (unless natural one turner).
And since with humans I feel kind of forced to play the opposite of my opponent (bash vs elves/skaven/etc.., agile vs orcs/mutants/dwarves), I then kick.
That's just my way, plenty of coaches stronger than me (see PC for example) do exactly the opposite.
Go figure...  |
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