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licker



Joined: Jul 10, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 07, 2017 - 00:41 Reply with quote Back to top

stowelly wrote:
sorry to bump this, but it seemed relevant. what about other teams big guys? such as goblins or ogres. where if you put your str 2/1 guys on the line they may survive, but quite likely not?


If you have AV9 BGs then put them on the LOS unless the opponent has claw (and is able to get 2ds on them).

Pretty straight forward I would think. For Ogres I would almost never put snots on the LOS, that's just gifting your opponent removal.

For Goblins it also depends on what secret weapons you have, but Trolls also have regen, so really I can't see not having them soak the blocks.
licker



Joined: Jul 10, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 07, 2017 - 00:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Arktoris wrote:
I'd consider both mummies on the LOS if I knew my opponent couldn't work out a 2d hit on them.

But generally to do that will require committing a lot of slow moving players to the front. Allowing for your opponent to race into the backfield with the ball and screen with little chance for you to counter.


I don't understand.

Why are you committing a lot of slow players to the front? Why wouldn't you want to have your opponent spend a lot of his players trying to get blocks on your mummies? The alternative is he doesn't take the blocks anyway, or, you are giving him blocks on AV8 players, who are also slow.

You can screen the edges too so that they cannot advance easily, and if the mummies plugged up the middle of the LOS they can't really go middle on you easily either.
Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 07, 2017 - 05:47 Reply with quote Back to top

As mentioned previously, a mummy on the los is in great jeopardy of being fouled off. get enough assists and that av9 won't be a major factor.

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licker



Joined: Jul 10, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 07, 2017 - 06:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Arktoris wrote:
As mentioned previously, a mummy on the los is in great jeopardy of being fouled off. get enough assists and that av9 won't be a major factor.


If the opponent wants to spend that many resources on that chance I say let them.

You will have a huge positional advantage afterwards.
Antithesisoftime



Joined: Aug 20, 2014

Post   Posted: Oct 07, 2017 - 18:49 Reply with quote Back to top

licker wrote:
Arktoris wrote:
As mentioned previously, a mummy on the los is in great jeopardy of being fouled off. get enough assists and that av9 won't be a major factor.


If the opponent wants to spend that many resources on that chance I say let them.

You will have a huge positional advantage afterwards.
depends on the race your playing against.

Elves, skaven, and to a lesser extent necro, care not for appearing it if position when they can abuse agility or afford to make up for it the next turn
Medon



Joined: Jan 28, 2015

Post   Posted: Oct 07, 2017 - 19:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Fouling on thick skill regen av9 is most probably not worth the odds. It's easy enough to stay away from these slow mummies by walking to the other side of the pitch? They won't be able to keep up, not even against dwarves...
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 07, 2017 - 19:29 Reply with quote Back to top

Medon: Mummies don't have Thick Skull by default.

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bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 07, 2017 - 19:30 Reply with quote Back to top

I usually put my mummies on the LOS.

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uzkulak



Joined: Mar 30, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 07, 2017 - 22:34 Reply with quote Back to top

There may be situational exceptions, but my rules of thumb would be -

Offence - yes to all

Defence:
treemen - yes
gobo/underworld Trolls - no
orc/pact trolls - yes
minos - no
mummies - no
tomb gaurdians - no
Kroxigor - mostly yes but really depends on opponent
human/pact ogre - sometimes, but mostly no
Ogre ogre - all or none
yeti - no
vampires - no
deathroller - no

The main reason for me being that these guys will often act as the anchor point of your defence or represent a significant obstacle to a switch play by dominating the weaker flank. As big guys are generally weak in speed and mobility they can easily get bypassed and left behind if they are knocked down
Zirgantz



Joined: May 30, 2017

Post   Posted: Oct 08, 2017 - 00:04 Reply with quote Back to top

Khemri can sometimes provide an interesting exception to the rule of thumb that big, valuable players shouldn't ever be set up on the LoS on defence. I've seen some khemri coaches (namely fxiii) set up all four tomb guardians on the LoS (with a free space between each, so that they cover the entire middle), with skeleton columns on the sides and the positionals two tiles behind the TGs in the middle. If you know your opponent cannot reasonably push through, you are effectively giving your opponent one or two (often risky) blocks on AV9 ST5 players rather than 3 easy ones on your more fragile AV7.

Here's an example (2nd half) :
https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=3800412
SeriliKirico



Joined: Sep 13, 2017

Post   Posted: Oct 08, 2017 - 05:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Isn't the decision of whether or not put mummies on the LoS is VERY context-dependent? Like, let's say you play against elves (or some hybrid team without Big Guy) at low TVs, so no guard is there at all. What they could possibly do if you put mummies + 2-4 regular players on the LoS? Most likely you'll make it very difficult for them to throw any blocks at all. May be they'll manage to block a couple of your guys, in the end, at best. They most likely won't get enough assists to get even 1 dice block on mummy. So why is this bad? You effectively discouraged them from throwing blocks at LoS this way. Even if some limited amount of Guard is there, if you have it yourself, you still can make them almost impossible to break your ranks at LoS
SeriliKirico



Joined: Sep 13, 2017

Post   Posted: Oct 08, 2017 - 21:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Let's consider a real example.

Image

Let's suppose I play against team without Guard and players with ST4+. Why can't I put my mummies on the LoS in defense like shown on the picture? Unless they'll get lucky on Kick Off and roll Quick Snap, they will struggle very hard to get enough assists to throw even a 1-dice block at one of mummies, not to say to provide enough assists to foul them this or next turn, most of the time (as even if they'll succeed in throwing a block at a mummy, it'll be pushed back most of the time).

They'll mostly be able to block mummies only on red dices; they may try to push the guy in the middle away, then get enough assists for 1-dice block against one of the mummies, and, if still succeed, may bet 1-dice block at the 2nd one - at best. It's very likely they won't try to do this, though, as it's quite risky, and require a lost of player on the LoS, and they still need to organize their offense and cover the ball. And if it's just one mummy they want to gang up against, drop it and foul it, they may do this anytime later anyway, as they still have 1 blitz per turn, and mummies are not players you hide behind a screen, they belong to the front.

Then, if they want to over-commit their players to the LoS to get those blocks - why not? May be I'll be able to surround them there next turn, screening them off from the ball deeper in their field?

So I effectively win fight at LoS, and perhaps may even have a chance to strike back at them next turn with mummies, if they won't re-position their guys from LoS -
without worsening my odds that much. Where am I mistaken?
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 08, 2017 - 21:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Agree. Most of the time though opponent has some guard or enough str to get blocks somehow

If you can out muscle them defensively, it's great. A downside is your mummies aren't mobile now, but probably worth it
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