| Poll |
| Hourly box activations? |
| Permantly change box to hourly activations |
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2% |
[ 3 ] |
| Permantly change box to 30mins peak, hourly offpeak |
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3% |
[ 4 ] |
| Trial change box to hourly activations |
|
3% |
[ 4 ] |
| Trial change box to 30mins peak, hourly offpeak |
|
24% |
[ 25 ] |
| Change nothing |
|
64% |
[ 66 ] |
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| Total Votes : 102 |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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 Posted:
Oct 12, 2017 - 17:35 |
 
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Dakka, you're going to wind up having no games instead of no 'fair' games on a long enough time scale if this continues. |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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| Posted:
Oct 12, 2017 - 17:37 |
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| datom wrote: | Take this with a pinch of salt, from one with a whole 2 games in box. But one thing to note - when you join up to FUMBBL, the first thing the team creation screen says is :
'Blackbox (Rules)
The Blackbox division is a highly competitive, cut-throat division where coaches are not able to choose who they play against. The toughest, roughest teams compete for glory in this division and there is no mercy for the weak!
This division is not recommended for newcomers to Blood Bowl.'
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That is true. It is deliberately advertised as the tough division regardless of what it is. |
_________________
“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Oct 12, 2017 - 17:41 |
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Like I said, purists can go soak their heads. This isn't about anyones definition of 'fair' or even what R or B 'should' be.
This is about simply getting more games scheduled and played. Especially at the off peak hours where B is simply dead already, and R might as well be.
I've long given up on playing R or B anyway, so maybe you don't think my opinion matters. But the reasons why I gave up on R and B are why my opinion matters. Since, seemingly, I'm far from alone in being done with those divisions. |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Oct 12, 2017 - 17:44 |
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| tussock wrote: | | Box scheduler not happening? Yeah, life, it's like a box of chocolates, sometimes it's empty. |
Most nihilistic quote of the year?  |
_________________
Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Oct 12, 2017 - 17:55 |
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| licker wrote: |
Like I said, purists can go soak their heads. This isn't about anyones definition of 'fair' or even what R or B 'should' be.
This is about simply getting more games scheduled and played. Especially at the off peak hours where B is simply dead already, and R might as well be.
I've long given up on playing R or B anyway, so maybe you don't think my opinion matters. But the reasons why I gave up on R and B are why my opinion matters. Since, seemingly, I'm far from alone in being done with those divisions. |
The problem is thinking of what enticements could lure you back.  It doesn't sound like any changes can get the horses back in the barn at this point. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Oct 12, 2017 - 17:56 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | licker wrote: | | but doing some sort of R & B merge (heh) should be on the table. If nothing else, it won't make anything worse. And the purists can go soak their heads. |
If divisions were merged why somebody should bother to use the matchmaking, with the risk of finding a bad match up or a team farmed through cherrypicking?
At that point it would be advantageous to cherrypick/dodging only, almost compulsory.
Playing with a pure matchmaking team vs teams developed through cherrypicking/dodging is not fair.
Basically merging the division would be like deleting Black Box, instead Ranked should be deleted to level the competitive play.
You want to pick? Nice, play in League, but don't get CR points for that. |
Heh heh heh. But you could tick the "pue only" box and avoid all the pickers.
Are you saying that there are enough "pure" coaches for you to get a match?
You can look at the Box/Pure CR to tell who the real men (and women and small furry creatures) are. |
_________________
O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Oct 12, 2017 - 18:01 |
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| licker wrote: |
This is about simply getting more games scheduled and played. Especially at the off peak hours where B is simply dead already, and R might as well be. |
I understand that this is about getting more games scheduled.
My recipe is having one and only competitive division with matchmaking only as pairing system to get more games scheduled.
If people have the easy alternative to farm CR/teams/win rate/playing games perceived as fair it's quite obvious they will lean towards it, leading to fewer games played in Black Box. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %12, %2017 - %18:%Oct; edited 1 time in total |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Oct 12, 2017 - 18:03 |
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| koadah wrote: |
Heh heh heh. But you could tick the "pue only" box and avoid all the pickers.
Are you saying that there are enough "pure" coaches for you to get a match?
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I'm saying that there could be the risk of not having enough "pure" coaches to play against in the merged division. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Oct 12, 2017 - 18:13 |
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| mrt1212 wrote: | | The problem is thinking of what enticements could lure you back. It doesn't sound like any changes can get the horses back in the barn at this point. |
It's not just about me, but yes, for NA it may well be too late. The BB2 guys I talk to have zero interest in FUMBBL outside of the superior options for setting up leagues.
I get that most euros don't care at all about how few NA coaches there are playing R or B, and that's another reason not to bother frankly. i don't blame them though, they should look out for themselves, but the cost seems to be the complete erosion of FUMBBL for NA/SA outside of a handful of leagues. And even the leagues are suffering a bit in terms of overall activity. I'm down to only one FUMBBL league myself, because the general interest level across the board has waned, it's not fun to play in a league of 32 teams where maybe half of them actually care and the rest can't be bothered to reply to PMs...
Still, I love the potential of the FUMBBL community, but I think that the status quo is a death sentence. May take a while, but for many of us it's already happened.
So, my opinion, stop being married to the old way, because the old way doesn't appear to be working. Just keeping the handful of diehards happy in their shrinking pond.
I mean it's not like BB2 even with LE is any great shakes, but I doubt there's any way to pry people away from it. Not that that was ever a goal for FUMBBL, but it's a bit of a problem none the less. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Oct 12, 2017 - 18:15 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | licker wrote: |
This is about simply getting more games scheduled and played. Especially at the off peak hours where B is simply dead already, and R might as well be. |
I understand that this is about getting more games scheduled.
My recipe is having one and only competitive division with matchmaking only as pairing system to get more games scheduled. |
Yes, B only, that seems to have been proven to not be a good idea already.
| MattDakka wrote: | | If people have the easy alternative to farm CR/teams/win rate/playing games perceived as fair it's quite obvious they will lean towards it, leading to fewer games played in Black Box. |
That what we already see. You propose removing the actually popular place to play games. How you think this will get more games scheduled defies all logic.
But the problem is that you are hung up on people 'cheating' to get a high CR or whatever. Who cares really? CR is almost meaningless anyway (though the racial ones are interesting), if the discussion is just about getting more games played then all of your worries about 'fairness' are meaningless. There is no prize for having the best CR afterall. |
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stowelly
Joined: Mar 16, 2017
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| Posted:
Oct 12, 2017 - 18:19 |
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hmm, How ive handled this on a similar system to this for what its worth:
have a persistent matchmaking queue, with a "ideal_queue_size", "min_queue_size", "players_per_minute". NDA prevents me using the exact calculation here. but essentially when players matchmaking per min (or similar metric) increases we increase the ideal queue size when it decreases we decrease the ideal queue size as far as the "min_queue_size" (in this case its 4 I think? ). so in busier times box will wait until theres for example 20 coaches in the queue before making its match, but in quiet times itll sit there until there are 4 coaches in. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Oct 12, 2017 - 18:23 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | koadah wrote: |
Heh heh heh. But you could tick the "pue only" box and avoid all the pickers.
Are you saying that there are enough "pure" coaches for you to get a match?
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I'm saying that there could be the risk of not having enough "pure" coaches to play against in the merged division. |
This is the Fumbbl equivalent of "I only bang tens, yes I'm a virgin, why do you ask?" |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Oct 12, 2017 - 18:26 |
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| licker wrote: |
Yes, B only, that seems to have been proven to not be a good idea already. |
It's not a good idea to put a "competitive" division like R in unfair competition with a true competitive division like B. Both divisions affect CR and allow to join majors, but only one allows to pick/dodge matches. It's quite a logical consequence that more people will play in R.
| licker wrote: | | That what we already see. You propose removing the actually popular place to play games. How you think this will get more games scheduled defies all logic. |
Because currently you can play in R only and not in B if you want, farm CR there and join majors.
Force people to play in B to earn CR and join majors, more games will be played.
| licker wrote: | | But the problem is that you are hung up on people 'cheating' to get a high CR or whatever. Who cares really? CR is almost meaningless anyway (though the racial ones are interesting), if the discussion is just about getting more games played then all of your worries about 'fairness' are meaningless. There is no prize for having the best CR afterall. |
It's not only CR, I don't want to face a R Amazon team who never played vs Dwarfs with my B Amazon team who had his fair share of Chaos Dwarfs and Dwarfs in Box.
A team built with the possibility of choosing/dodging opponents has been built in an easier way and it will be probably better developed, with more stat freaks etc. |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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| Posted:
Oct 12, 2017 - 18:43 |
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| koadah wrote: | | What is wrong with the quality of the games? |
You probably wouldn't know, koadah, given that you've only played 1 game in either R or B this year, and that was back in July
| koadah wrote: | | On gamefinder you can pick a 'quality' game. |
A quality game from who's point-of-view? We all know there are many coaches that hang out on the gf that have a very one-sided view of what a 'quality' game is.
| koadah wrote: | | But hey, how many people (apart from Matt) are going to insist on 'pure' scheduler? |
I'm very much with Matt on this. There should be a clearer distinction in the main divisions between casual and competitive. Frankly, if I were 'king', I would do away with R entirely. It's a very odd compromise between casual/competitive that doesn't really suit either camp. |
_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!"  |
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Cloggy
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 12, 2017 - 18:46 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | Repetitive stuff about people playing in Ranked just to gain CR easily |
Errmm....
CR is NOT why people play in Ranked. You've been preaching from the same old soapbox for years now. Time to accept that people play where they do because it's where they have the most fun. Pure and simple. |
_________________
Proud owner of three completed Ranked grids, sadly lacking in having a life. |
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