25 coaches online • Server time: 03:09
Index Search Usergroups Profile
Log in
Recent Forum Topics goto Post Dice stats not yet a...goto Post POLL: FUMBBLer of th...goto Post Help! My +ST wardanc...
SearchSearch 
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2017 - 12:21 Reply with quote Back to top

Is it time for the Voodoo-signal? Twisted Evil

_________________
Image
Secret SLAM- 4 Team KO - Every Monday 20:00BB
Cyrus-Havoc



Joined: Sep 15, 2006

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2017 - 12:28 Reply with quote Back to top

I lost my last game v smallman but my ranking still went up. 154.03 to 154.35.

The game before I won but my ranking dropped 154.84 - 154.03.

I wonder do the game pages show the CR at the start as I was sure it used to be CR an the end?

On my about page it shows me as 153.98 as against 154.35 on the last game.

_________________
Not Undead but perhaps the oldest living coach!
Guardikai



Joined: Jun 23, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2017 - 13:05 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for that Christer. You're a star ^-^ (or should that be legend?)
Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2017 - 13:30
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

Cyrus-Havoc wrote:
I lost my last game v smallman but my ranking still went up. 154.03 to 154.35.

The game before I won but my ranking dropped 154.84 - 154.03.

I wonder do the game pages show the CR at the start as I was sure it used to be CR an the end?

On my about page it shows me as 153.98 as against 154.35 on the last game.


That's a bunch of things in one post:

1. The match page now shows the ranking before the match rather than after it. This is a conscious choice on my part and is by design.

Before your last match (https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&id=3937776),
you had a CR of 154.35. After the match (ie, now, you have 153.98. This means that you lost 0.37 rating for that particular loss.

In the match prior to that, you started the game with CR 154.03, and the win took you to CR 154.35 (which of course was your starting CR in the last match you played). This is a net of +0.32.

What you have done here is to not connect the fact that the CR is prior to the game rather than after it. So taking the CR listed on one match and comparing it to the next match shows the delta of the previous match, not the latter one.
Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2017 - 13:52 Reply with quote Back to top

One side effect. If you are winning a game and your next TD will make it say 2-0 (in the second half) you are better off stalling to ensure you win by 2. Under the old system, you would score early since 2-1 is just as good as 2-0.

_________________
I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.

Oscar Wilde
mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2017 - 13:58
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

Grod wrote:
One side effect. If you are winning a game and your next TD will make it say 2-0 (in the second half) you are better off stalling to ensure you win by 2. Under the old system, you would score early since 2-1 is just as good as 2-0.


But how are you going to win 4-0 if you don't make it 2-0?

_________________
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude

Mr. J's LRB7 / Forum
Cyrus-Havoc



Joined: Sep 15, 2006

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2017 - 14:10 Reply with quote Back to top

Christer wrote:
Cyrus-Havoc wrote:
I lost my last game v smallman but my ranking still went up. 154.03 to 154.35.

The game before I won but my ranking dropped 154.84 - 154.03.

I wonder do the game pages show the CR at the start as I was sure it used to be CR an the end?

On my about page it shows me as 153.98 as against 154.35 on the last game.


That's a bunch of things in one post:

1. The match page now shows the ranking before the match rather than after it. This is a conscious choice on my part and is by design.

Before your last match (https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&id=3937776),
you had a CR of 154.35. After the match (ie, now, you have 153.98. This means that you lost 0.37 rating for that particular loss.

In the match prior to that, you started the game with CR 154.03, and the win took you to CR 154.35 (which of course was your starting CR in the last match you played). This is a net of +0.32.

What you have done here is to not connect the fact that the CR is prior to the game rather than after it. So taking the CR listed on one match and comparing it to the next match shows the delta of the previous match, not the latter one.


Thanks that makes perfect sense.

_________________
Not Undead but perhaps the oldest living coach!
Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2017 - 14:15 Reply with quote Back to top

It doesn't matter. Not sure which version of the scoring system we are on, but you only need a 2-0 victory to achieve the full effect?

At least thats how I read:

"The TD effect is reduced somewhat, making S=0.9 or 0.1 for a 1 TD differential and 1.0 or 0 for 2 or more TD difference. This was reduced from +3 TDs required for full CR effect."

mister__joshua wrote:
Grod wrote:
One side effect. If you are winning a game and your next TD will make it say 2-0 (in the second half) you are better off stalling to ensure you win by 2. Under the old system, you would score early since 2-1 is just as good as 2-0.


But how are you going to win 4-0 if you don't make it 2-0?

_________________
I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.

Oscar Wilde
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2017 - 14:17 Reply with quote Back to top

muaddib68 wrote:
Hi...well not sure the "New" cr will be so great , after some processing and calculating i see the first of race are player who dont play many games....for exemple for halfling in the 30 first on CR classment 25 have 5 or less game ...so, not sure the cr can be taken for classing ...not sure that a guy who play 1 game and wining it (100/100) and having 150 cr on the race can be better than coach who got 200 or 300 but winig 75/100 of them...but having a less cr ....i think this classement must take number of game ...played...no ?

I suggested rankings decay to fix that kind of anomalies.
Rankings decay would induce coaches to keep on playing (not just being active on FUMBBL) if they want to be on top of the racial rankings, otherwise, the coach who plays very few games, for example less than 10, wins a lot (maybe because he had a lucky streak) and stops playing that race will always be on top of racial rankings and will be hard to surpass, because the sample of matches is very small.
Another racial ranking issue is caused by some coaches cycling top tier 1 teams: if you keep on making Amazon teams and retire them after few games played the racial rankings of that coach will always be hard to surpass for coaches who don't cycle their teams.

_________________
Please vote the Diving Catch and Break Tackle/Diving Tackle bug reports, thanks!
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2017 - 14:37 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't think that decay is that useful for CR. It is better for championship style rankings.

With decay you would have people taking time off and dropping back to 150. They would then return and trash someones CR. Wink

Just hiding people from the lists is better.
If someone has got stale while they were away their CR will drop if they continue playing.

A CCL style seasonal rating may be better for getting people playing.
Warning: CCL tends to die a bit towards the end of the season. That may be less of an issue if teams are NOT kicked from the division at the end of the season.

2/0/0 coaches being top of the rankings just looks like a bug.

_________________
Image
Secret SLAM- 4 Team KO - Every Monday 20:00BB
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2017 - 15:05 Reply with quote Back to top

So the way it's been tightened up, it looks like 160 is the new 170.

_________________
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
PurpleChest



Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2017 - 15:17 Reply with quote Back to top

The new rankings have confirmed what I have long suspected.

I'm not very good at Bloodbowl.

And especially bad with Dwarves, my lowest rated of the races that I have played >10 games with.

In fact, you would get a tougher game vs a Rookie.

My New CR for Dwarves is 148.89.

Some coaches who are rated ahead of me:
El_Dude 1 (0) 0/0/1 149.47
arry 56 (22) 8/9/39 149.24
dreamscreator 20 (38.) 5/5/10 148.97
dapperdan 79 (48.) 29/18/32 148.9

and then me
PurpleChest 1212 (75) 809/196/207 148.89

Should be a lot easier finding the games i need to learn how to play BB.

_________________
Barbarus hic ego sum quia non intelligor ulli
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone
Harad



Joined: May 11, 2014

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2017 - 16:09 Reply with quote Back to top

A part time hobby of mine had been to get to legend with each race in the box. It's an arbitrary goal and not an important one. I think I was just missing 5 or something. I was surprised at how much effect this change has had. I haven't gone through it in depth, but I think it's interesting that, for example, for undead and khemri I've gone from legend to star and emerging star respectively. Anecdotally the lists seem to have more people higher on them with fewer games but I could be wrong.
On the assumption that CR was trying to crudely measure 'how good' someone is, this suggests that either the previous method or the new method doesn't do an amazing job of this because otherwise there would be unlikely to be such variance.
This is NOT a complaint. CR can be whatever people want it to be, it's just a bit of fun and I don't mind. I just thought it was worth sharing this perspective as when changes have large effects it's worth checking that they were as intended.
easilyamused



Joined: Jun 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2017 - 16:29
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

PurpleChest wrote:
The new rankings have confirmed what I have long suspected.

I'm not very good at Bloodbowl.

And especially bad with Dwarves, my lowest rated of the races that I have played >10 games with.

In fact, you would get a tougher game vs a Rookie.

My New CR for Dwarves is 148.89.

Some coaches who are rated ahead of me:
El_Dude 1 (0) 0/0/1 149.47
arry 56 (22) 8/9/39 149.24
dreamscreator 20 (38.) 5/5/10 148.97
dapperdan 79 (48.) 29/18/32 148.9

and then me
PurpleChest 1212 (75) 809/196/207 148.89

Should be a lot easier finding the games i need to learn how to play BB.


I'm sorry PC but this genuinely made me laugh out loud. And it must mean that you were just insanely lucky in every game we've played Smile

Either that or I suck worse than you.....

_________________
Image
Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2017 - 17:07
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

Christer wrote:
I am aware of the fact that the current ranking formula has some undesirable effects
Display posts from previous:     
 Jump to:   
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Powered by PNphpBB2 1.2 © 2003 PNphpBB Group
Credits